Modular ponderings

[actual]

Soo...I'm contemplating going down the rabbit hole, here's the deal: Being a student, I have a limited budget (though I do have a budget). Looking at my current setup, there's some stuff I'd like to add, particularly another synth, some choice pedals and I'd also like to start a rack of outboard. I've put aside getting a new bass for now, as the love/hate relationship I have with my current one, has been leaning towards the love side lately. Anyway, moving on.
I was browsing Eurorack stuff the other day, and came across a divider module from Dreadbox, capable of creating sub-octaves (news to me), which sparked this whole idea of killing a couple of birds with one modular. At first I wanted to just do a little case for processing, but the idea has since evolved into a full self-contained synth which doubles as an effective effectsbox (sorry).
The system I'm looking at would contain 2 VCO's, 1 ADSR EG, 1 dual VCA, 2 VCF's, 1 LFO, 1 mixer, 1 divider, 1 inverter, 1 phaser and finally an ext in/envelope follower.

The things I''d like this system to do, apart from being a playable synth, includes:
Interstellar Orbiter type shit (lfo > inverter > filters)
Phaser (duh)
Octaver (ext in > divider)
"Guitar"-synth (ext in > osc sync)
Dual multimode env filter (env follower > inverter/mixer > filters)

The modules I'm looking at are
From Dreadbox:
1xDivider
2xVCO
1xPhaser (doubles as LFO)
1xDual VCA
1xADSR

From Doepfer:
2xWasp VCF A-124
1xExt In A-119
1xDual Inverter
1xDual Mixer A-138u

These would go in a Doepfer 3U low cost wodden case.

All of this would come out to 1.099EUR, the cost of like 1 synth and 2-3 pedals, but I'd get more functionality, as well as the option of expanding. Down the line I could add another phaser for Bi-Phase stuff, another lfo, adsr, mult etc. and I can sequence with my Minibrute, either via the built-in sequencer or use it as a midi to cv converter.
So, do any of you guys see any issues with the system I've planned? Would it be able to do the stuff I want it to? I realize that say the filters won't sound like an Interstellar, but who knows, maybe I'll like these better. Another thing to add is that I'm a studio guy, not a gigging musician, so the advantage of having separate pedals doesn't really apply here.

[oscillateur]

A couple of quick remarks :
- What you think you will want/need and what you actually will want/need are two different things, so get things slowly and see what you actually use/want to use.
- A 3U case will almost certainly feel limiting after a while. I'd recommend a 6U case, you can get decent one for much better prices now than even a few years ago and that's a good size for a nice focused system...

I don't have enough time to check the modules list you mentioned now, I'll try to do that later . There are probably other options worth considering for each one though (it's then a price/functionalities/etc. choice for each).

[actual]

A couple of quick remarks :
- What you think you will want/need and what you actually will want/need are two different things, so get things slowly and see what you actually use/want to use.
- A 3U case will almost certainly feel limiting after a while. I'd recommend a 6U case, you can get decent one for much better prices now than even a few years ago and that's a good size for a nice focused system...

I don't have enough time to check the modules list you mentioned now, I'll try to do that later . There are probably other options worth considering for each one though (it's then a price/functionalities/etc. choice for each).

The thing is, I know what kind of sounds I like to do when programming a synth, and consider myself a somewhat seasoned synthesist, so I also know what it requires to get those sounds. I also know what effects I'm missing and want. I'd have to order the stuff over 2 or more rounds, so I might change my mind in the meantime.
I'll be starting with the 3U case, just cause of cost, and will be adding another case later on, as they're not that expensive. The modules I've listed max out the 84HP's of the case. I'd be glad if you checked out the modules if you have the time They're all pretty cheap though, and I kinda like Alessandro Cortini's philosophy of keeping the brands together.

[lordgalvar]

Shades, or another mixer/inverter/offset/attenuator, might be a good substitute for the dedicated inverter/mixer (I think fonitronik makes one too).

You'll need an in, an envelope follower, and possibly a PLL to do guitar synth stuff. Xaoc, Befaco, and Barton have all in one follower/input modules. Bastl divides the function between two modules. These can double as your out.

Dual AD/AR are the way to go in a small system in my opinion.

Divider wouldn't be needed right off the bat if you got the doepfer PLL instead (unless you are dividing triggers). I assume it is for audio. Both will be close enough to squarewave. If you want different divided shapes, there are a few modules.

If you want to keep brands together, doepfer and Befaco might be a better fit.

The difference in cost between a 84 and 104 HP synthrotek case is worth it.

[actual]

Shades, or another mixer/inverter/offset/attenuator, might be a good substitute for the dedicated inverter/mixer (I think fonitronik makes one too).

You'll need an in, an envelope follower, and possibly a PLL to do guitar synth stuff. Xaoc, Befaco, and Barton have all in one follower input modules. Bastl divides the function between two modules. These can double as your out.

Dual AD/AR are the way to go in a small system in my opinion.

Divider wouldn't be needed right off the bat if you got the doepfer PLL instead (unless you are dividing triggers). I assume it is for audio. Both will be close enough to squarewave. If you want different divided shapes, there are a few modules.

If you want to keep brands together, doepfer and Befaco might be a better fit.

The Doepfer A-119 is both an ext in and an env follower. The Dreadbox VCO's have hard sync. Why wouldn't I be able to hook up say my bass to the ext in, and then send that signal to the hard sync? I want the divider for suboctaves. Dual EG's would be cool, but that's an easy add down the line.
I've never heard of Befaco? They are a bit more expensive than Dreadbox, but they don't make a phaser, or other effects, though they do have a cool instrument interface I see. Also I like the sound of Dreadbox stuff... why do you think Befaco would go better with Doepfer?

Keep in mind that I live in Europe, and I will be ordering my stuff from thomann.de. Wouldn't know where to get the Synthrotek case, and even if I found a store in Europe, I'd have to pay extra for shipping, and thomann gives you a 3 year warranty.

[lordgalvar]

Missed the a-119 in the list.

Do whatever you want, just gave some thoughts (and the case thing was just an example).

Doepfer makes several phasers.

[actual]

Missed the a-119 in the list.

Do whatever you want, just gave some thoughts (and the case thing was just an example).

Doepfer makes several phasers.

Okay

Yeah I know, I don't mean to come off as anything other than curious. Sorry if I do. I appreciate the reply.
I guess I created this thread mainly for troubleshooting, as I'm a novice when it comes to modulars.

[Strange Tales]

If you're really set on two WASP filters only (why? go for more flavor if you can), I'd recommend the Haible Dual WASP Filter from RandomSource. Same thing as two Doepfer WASPs, but it has syncing capabilities between the two filters. RandomSource also makes the Haible Tau Pipe Phaser which is phenomenal or so I've heard.

[oscillateur]

For the phaser module, there are a couple of more expensive but potentially more interesting options : Intellijel Polaris (lots of more advanced filter modes and modulation inputs, input overdrive) and Xaoc Kamieniec. As Mr Galvar mentioned, Doepfer also has phasers, though a bit more basic. Doepfer stuff is usually efficient as fuck, though.

For the input module, the A119 is a good choice if you want the envelope follower too (you can do this with a slew limiter too if needed, btw).

I would not recommend getting two of the same filter, especially in a small system. If you really like the Wasp filter, get only one of them and something else. The Bastl Cinnamon is a great alternative. Small (5HP), lots of character (the 3 switches make it go from a clean filter to a dirty, filthy wonderful sound mangler), and works well as a sine oscillator too.

Same for VCOs, diversity is great in a small system. Having modules that work as either an oscillator or something else (LFO mode, filter, etc.) is a good way to have options in a small space.

For the envelope, unless you want to use a keyboard controller or something similar, chances are that you're looking for an attack/release (or attack/sustain/release if using a gate instead of a trigger) rather than an ADSR. That means you can probably get a dual module and/or something that also cycles/etc. in the same amount of HP as an ADSR.

Instead of the Doepfer inverter, consider the Mutable Instruments Kinks. Same HP and more useful features.

[actual]

If you're really set on two WASP filters only (why? go for more flavor if you can), I'd recommend the Haible Dual WASP Filter from RandomSource. Same thing as two Doepfer WASPs, but it has syncing capabilities between the two filters. RandomSource also makes the Haible Tau Pipe Phaser which is phenomenal or so I've heard.

The Wasp filter is just nasty, and for dual filter stuff, I guess I'd like two filters that behave in the same way. The RandomSource one looks real neat though, however I'd have to source parts for it, and solder it myself, which I'd rather not get into for the time being. Same goes for the phaser, though it does look a bit less demanding.
I'm starting to think I'll have to look around for other manufacturers though, and see what else is there.

This d00d has a pretty nice vid of the Doepfer Wasp
[youtube][/youtube]

[Strange Tales]

I mean others could always build it for you as well , but eurorack is vast land and anchoring yourself to one or two companies only (no matter how great Doepfer is), is a little shortsighted and I think (in my personal opinion) missing the greatness of eurorack as a whole.

I can't tell if you want a more expansive system or just a patchable duophonic synth with PLL stuff here. No matter what small system you'd make, I'd vote against getting two of the same filter, VCO because it just doesn't seem worth it. Get something that sounds creamy against the harsh edge of the WASP. Don't limit the sounds that your system can create.

Also if you wanted to build the Haible WASP, I have a Mouser project saved thats about all the parts for it. Haven't bought the cart and built it yet, but I'll be doing that next month.

[actual]

For the phaser module, there are a couple of more expensive but potentially more interesting options : Intellijel Polaris (lots of more advanced filter modes and modulation inputs, input overdrive) and Xaoc Kamieniec. As Mr Galvar mentioned, Doepfer also has phasers, though a bit more basic. Doepfer stuff is usually efficient as fuck, though.

For the input module, the A119 is a good choice if you want the envelope follower too (you can do this with a slew limiter too if needed, btw).

I would not recommend getting two of the same filter, especially in a small system. If you really like the Wasp filter, get only one of them and something else. The Bastl Cinnamon is a great alternative. Small (5HP), lots of character (the 3 switches make it go from a clean filter to a dirty, filthy wonderful sound mangler), and works well as a sine oscillator too.

Same for VCOs, diversity is great in a small system. Having modules that work as either an oscillator or something else (LFO mode, filter, etc.) is a good way to have options in a small space.

For the envelope, unless you want to use a keyboard controller or something similar, chances are that you're looking for an attack/release (or attack/sustain/release if using a gate instead of a trigger) rather than an ADSR. That means you can probably get a dual module and/or something that also cycles/etc. in the same amount of HP as an ADSR.

Instead of the Doepfer inverter, consider the Mutable Instruments Kinks. Same HP and more useful features.

I'll be checking out those recommendations in the first paragraph, thanks.
I get what you're saying about the filters (and VCO's), and I will consider getting different modules, but the idea is that, if you go buy a standalone synth, with say 2 VCO and 2 VCFs, you get two of the same. You could argue that I might as well go get a standalone synth then, but I hope you get what I'm saying. Also if I'd like to run say a HP into a LP or vice versa, I'd be able to get the same results. With two different ones, I wouldn't.

I'll be controlling it from a keyboard/sequencer 95% of the time.
The Kinks is definitely a contender.

[actual]

I mean others could always build it for you as well , but eurorack is vast land and anchoring yourself to one or two companies only (no matter how great Doepfer is), is a little shortsighted and I think (in my personal opinion) missing the greatness of eurorack as a whole.

I can't tell if you want a more expansive system or just a patchable duophonic synth with PLL stuff here. No matter what small system you'd make, I'd vote against getting two of the same filter, VCO because it just doesn't seem worth it. Get something that sounds creamy against the harsh edge of the WASP. Don't limit the sounds that your system can create.

Also if you wanted to build the Haible WASP, I have a Mouser project saved thats about all the parts for it. Haven't bought the cart and built it yet, but I'll be doing that next month.

The idea of sticking to a couple of brands, is mainly just for now, with this case. Especially cause those two brands are rather cheap.

If I do pull the trigger on this system, I'd most likely want to expand in the future, but for now, I just want simple synth to expand my sound sources (I've got a Minilogue, Minibrute and Xiosynth atm). Like I mentioned in the above post, I get where you're going with the filters, but at the end of the day, both the Minilogue and Minibrute have ext. ins, meaning I essentially have 4 filters to muck about with.

I'll remember that, thanks

[Warpsmasher]

Erica Synths Pico VCF1 or some other polivoks derivative, if you want another nasty filter to compliment the Wasp.
The new Dreadbox stuff seems like a great value costwise. I'm interested in Drips and several of the White Line series modules. They're a little spendy on HP though, so going 6u is definitely a good call if you stick with them & Doepfer.

[actual]

Erica Synths Pico VCF1 or some other polivoks derivative, if you want another nasty filter to compliment the Wasp.
The new Dreadbox stuff seems like a great value costwise. I'm interested in Drips and several of the White Line series modules. They're a little spendy on HP though, so going 6u is definitely a good call if you stick with them & Doepfer.

Fuck yeah Polivoks! Actually that whole Pico line is very attractive.