Help Me Play Jazz Chords!

[HeavyXIII]

Okay, so I don't really play jazz chords. Well, maybe sort of, I dunno. Anyways, stylistically, I like to do lots of weird extended chords, and by that I really mean take a normal looking chord and add extra "flavor notes" to it. Do I have any idea what I'm doing? Sometimes.

Here's my dilemma: I've been using OCD clone for my main dirt sound. I love the texture of it, but it's really not clear enough to articulate these strange ass chords I like to use. It has a clean blend, which definitely helps, but that gives me a weird pick attack and I lose some of the compressed low end on palm muting. I'm trying to figure out what properties contribute to clear string separation, and the first thing that comes to mind is compression for some reason. I've tried dialing back the gain, dialing up the tone, but it still seems pretty messy and difficult to get "right".

TLDR; I'm having trouble with distorted chords, looking for gear tricks to fix or dirt pedal suggestions that bring both clarity and the heavies.

[PeteeBee]

Best luck I've had with this is a Mini and the pd100 by Friday pedal club. That's actually the reason the pd100 is on my board. Does the whole 'roll off the volume a little for clarity' really well.

This is one of my most desired traits in a dirt pedal, /9 I'm really curious what everyone suggests.

[HeavyXIII]

I have issues, because I haven't loved any of the clips I've heard of the Mini. The whole situation is ironic, because I play "doom" with a bunch of guys who just want to be loud. lmao Probably looking for something more along the lines of a distortion. Thinking a 3 band EQ might help.

[coldbrightsunlight]

The Algal Bloom is my favourite for this. Can get fairly heavy but still sound nice with complex chords. No eq, which is fine for me but maybe not you. Perhaps Doom Bloom would be better for the distortion/doom stuff? Never tried one of those. Tom is a cool dude and would no doubt do some sort of custom with more eq stuff if you wanted it.

[neonblack]

Driving Notion is specifically meant for complex chords. It's not very doomy though.

Maybe a multiband distortion like the iron either qf2?

[odontophobia]

Maybe a pickup swap is in order.
Maybe consider something utilized by some of the tech-metal/prog-metal dudes who play weird complex chords.

I've got the Duncan Pegasus/Sentient in a guitar. They seem to allow a clarity throughout. Not sure that it's the particular set you need but it may offer a path to head down.

The Pegasus is the newest offering from Seymour Duncan designed specifically for the demands of 7/8 string players. Put a Pegasus in the bridge position of your guitar and you’ll hear harmonic richness, great dynamics, and defined string separation that ensures all those notes break through any distorted mix. Many seven string players have been saying that they need a pickup that isn’t excessively high-gain, given the amount of available gain on modern amps. The Pegasus provides the perfect balance with a more moderate output that lets you push it to the edge and still retain warmth and clarity. It’s a perfect match for progressive metal.

Another great part is that the Pegasus is not just available in passive (naked coil) sizing but also in soapbar (active mount) sizing. Many 7/8 string guitars come with active pickups that use a different (phase 2) sizing and this new size is a direct replacement for those.

The Sentient humbucker was originally designed to accompany the 7 and 8 string passive Nazgl and Pegasus bridge pickups. It delivers a balanced, versatile tone that fits right between the 59 model and the Jazz neck pickup. Youll get pristine cleans, and fluid leads under high gain. The Sentient is a very articulate vintage output pickup with great dynamic response and a wide harmonic range. It works great for low tunings in all humbucker-equipped guitars. This passive 7-string humbucker comes in choice of a standard open-coil look or black metal humbucker cover, both in a classic passive mount that easily fits in any guitar with traditional routing. We also make it in a standard active mount size with a black soapbar cover with one row of exposed poles for a modern look. Pair with the passive Nazgl or Pegasus bridge humbuckers for a perfectly balanced metal tone. Hand built in our Santa Barbara, CA factory, the Sentient uses an alnico 5 bar magnet, nickel silver bottom plate, 4-conductor lead wire for multiple wiring options, and is vacuum wax potted for squeal-free performance.

[ck3]

How many strings and what tuning(s) do you use? Part of the solution may be to only use fragments of the extended chords, i.e., only the 3-4 most essential tones in the voicing. This can work well with 6th, 7th, 9th, 6/9, 11th, and 13th chords. Gearwise, dirt with a clean blend will be your friend if you want to use super dissonant or 5+ note chords with higher gain.

[friendship]

How many strings and what tuning(s) do you use? Part of the solution may be to only use fragments of the extended chords, i.e., only the 3-4 most essential tones in the voicing. This can work well with 6th, 7th, 9th, 6/9, 11th, and 13th chords. Gearwise, dirt with a clean blend will be your friend if you want to use super dissonant or 5+ note chords with higher gain.

This is good advice. The harmonic relationships between extended intervals are more complex to the ear/brain. Distortion amplifies those harmonic relationships and adds more harmonic overtones. So using complex chords with distortion of any kind creates a very complex network of harmonics that the ear can register as dissonant or mushy. There's just a shit ton going on.. The reason why power chords with lots of distortion works so well is because a root and fifth is a very simple harmonic relationship; there's a lot of room for multiplying overtones. So there are a few ways to work with this.

1. what ck3 says, which is to take out things like the fifth and even the tonic which can be implied harmonically by the rest of the chord or whatever else is going on in the music.
2. keep your chord voicings in a higher register. Because of the way our cochlear is shaped, chords with extended intervals at lower registers sound more dissonant to us than the very same ones at higher registers.
3. Pedalwise, use stuff with even order harmonics and soft clipping. Avoid intermodulated distortions like octave fuzzes and the like. And your clean blend is your friend.
4. It's never going to sound totally clear using complex chords with even light dirt, stop worrying and learn to love the mess.

[whoismarykelly]

Clean blend is more likely to make sounds discordant because it will sound like multiple instruments playing and on guitar it usually sounds awkward. The clean will cut way more than the drive as well and that will bury the heavyness of what you are playing.

You probably just need a dirt pedal that has better clarity. Try the Emma Pisdiyauwot or Reezafratzitz. I always had good luck with those.

Also, as with most things, the tightness and clarity in your technique are significantly more important than gear choices.

[popvulture]

Definitely Mini, Gray Channel's No-Diode setting, Blues Driver, and Catalinbread SFT all come to mind if I think of gain pedals with less midrange and compression. Overall wider range, nice clarity. I haven't played an Elements yet, but its degree of tweakability sounds like it might be worth a look for this situation?

For me, jazz chords are all about the attack. A lot of times I fingerpick the chords, sort of claw at them if you will... that way I don't hit any errant notes/strings with the pick and I can really get that sort of piano-like attack. So if you've got a way that you hybrid pick or occasionally pop your pick in between your fingers (this is what I do), it's great for getting that nice snap/ring and varying up your tonality. Sometimes you do wanna play with a pick though and get more of a nice sweep. This sounds great as well, but you want to make sure to avoid hitting any of those unwanted notes/strings outside of the chord, because mix those with drive and you've got mud.

[elevenstrings]

I've used an Acid Age Acid Pig (now called Iron Pig, by Earthbound Audio) - it's a Rat with a lot of options.

I just hit whatever complex chord, then dial back the gain until the character/definition of the notes is clear enough.... and that's my setting.

[HeavyXIII]

I have seen a lot about choosing chord voicing carefully, so I'll definitely play with leaving things out. We tune to C standard and drop A sharp, so I know that's not really helping haha.

I have trouble getting a clear power chord + the second fifth and octave higher, which seems odd given that they should be the same ratio. However at home I get better chord clarity out of a Line 6 amp. So I wonder if it has more to do with the quality or type of distortion?

Anybody know if compression, whether natural or pedal based helps? My buddy has a Dyna Comp I can test this with; maybe it would even out string response?

Looked at several different amp in the box circuits too, but trying to avoid spending a boatload of money.

[popvulture]

In my experience, pedal based compressors aren't going to get you a ton of clarity, as they're really pretty sub-par versions of studio-grade comps. That's not to say they're not fun, useful and good sounding though—it's just that the typical thing you're gonna get is a more glued together sound, less air/clarity. Even with studio comps, the fundamental thing you're doing is decreasing the dynamic range, so... I'd say compressors aren't what you're after.

I'd be looking for pedals that offer great eq tweaking, or a generally wide range and tight/focused bottom end.

[ck3]

Clean blend is more likely to make sounds discordant because it will sound like multiple instruments playing and on guitar it usually sounds awkward. The clean will cut way more than the drive as well and that will bury the heavyness of what you are playing.

You have a point there. I was thinking more for droning/shoegazey applications, though the OP clearly plays heavier music. However, I'm pretty sure the V2 Algal Bloom has a bit of clean blend going on at certain settings, and it sounds clearer than many other fuzzboxes (to my ears) with more intricate chords at higher gain settings.

Other decent options for clearer dissonance in the fuzzier/gainier realm would be the ARC Crimson King or a super-tweakable Rat variant like the Yellowcake Furry Burrito.

[popvulture]

Now that I think about it, Four Eyes might be worth a look. Tight for a fuzz, easily crosses over into OD territory, but can get pretty heavy. The filter gives a huge range of tones, too.