Parallel looper

[Jwar]

Hey DIY guys. I was wondering about this because it was recently brought up and I'm trying to figure out what exactly makes a looper run well parallel.


Is this considered a parallel looper? http://www.roadrageprogear.com/ktb1003.html


Or this http://www.axeandyoushallreceive.com/pr ... looper-kit


I guess basically I don't understand the difference with loopers. Can anyone explain?

[multi_s]

i think both of those kits are more or less the same thing but 1 has 2 loops and one has 3.

im not sure what you mean exactly by 'run well parallel' but maybe someone more hip to loopers can chime in.

[hazefuzz]

first I'm pretty sure that both are in parallel

http://www.roadrageprogear.com/ktb1003.html
for this one, it's a normal effect loops, to change between effects and more effects, 1 switch per channel
the advantage is you can have more then 2 loop engage (or course if the looper is more than a 2channel)

http://www.axeandyoushallreceive.com/pr%20...%20looper-kit
this one is a mix between an A/B switch and an effect loop, with the first switch you change between channel 1 or 2 and with the second switch you choose both chanel


hope it's help

and 1 last thing, if you planning have an effect loop, don't buy it, built it, I mean $55 for a 3chanel and $50 for A/B switch, damn!.... I'm sure you're better buy each parts from store, and you if you need parts list or schematic just tell me

[oldangelmidnight]

It doesn't look like either of those does parallel. It looks like they're both designed to be series but maybe they could be wired for parallel.
The way I understand it, you need some kind of buffer to split the signal to make a successful parallel looper. Something to do with impedance or something.
Whenever I've tried to make a quick and dirty parallel loop using Y cables, it was a failure.

[Bassus Sanguinis]

The way I understand it, you need some kind of buffer to split the signal to make a successful parallel looper. Something to do with impedance or something.
Whenever I've tried to make a quick and dirty parallel loop using Y cables, it was a failure.

Yep, this. I've wondered if it could be done by simply adding a vol knob for post boost to fix the drop but... I'm not sure it would be the same.

The bad side to the buffers is, if YOu would be using the parallel looping for fuzz, that they can fuck up Your fuzz tones. I mean totally killing all radical awesomeness in many cases (according to my experience, in ALL cases, though I'm not saying I have tried the best buffers available). Use the buffered signal routing for super saturated distortions and compressed overdrive only.

[McSpunckle]

Those just look like true bypass loopers. They go in series.

Parallel loopers depending on what you're doing.

You could have the looper split the signal out to two pedals, and combine those two pedal's outputs. That can be done with just a couple of jacks. But then you could have phase and impedance issues.

If you just ran your signal in parallel with a pedal, it'd make a feedback loop. So that's no good. SO! My suggestion:

Do an active splitter (just two buffers sharing an input) to two outputs ("send" on most loop pedals). These outputs will go to the effects you want in parallel. Then, you'll take the output from those effects and run them into their own buffers and connect the output of those buffers.

Now phase! To correct phase, you can just add an SHO or LPB style booster to either chain. If you match the two collector and emitter resistors (or drain and source for an SHO), they won't boost. They'll just reverse the phase of the signal. Add a switch to bypass it.

... this is hard to explain. So, here's a text diagram:

Code: Select all

 
   |> Buffer > Send > effect > return > ............. > buffer >|
In|.............................................................| > Out 
   |> Buffer > Send > effect > return > phase reverse > buffer >|

It's basically just two loopers wired side by side with buffers before the send and after the return. And a phase reverse on one of them.

Here's some buffers: http://www.muzique.com/lab/buffers.htm

I'd go with Jfet on the input, and BJT on the output, but it really doesn't matter. If you're making a PCB, go with OPamps for sure. I've found OPamps can sometimes be awkward on perf/stripboard, though.

[moose23]

Paralooper does some nice parallel with high and low pass filters on each signal line. For two effects loops you can add a loop in between C5 and UA B but you'd need to add in the decoupling cap C6 and the 1M resistor to ground.



and here's an implementation of a phase switch, see sw 1.

[Will Lee]

That paralooper has fuzz matching impedance? Guitar like? I would probably want vol pots before (maybe one booster before it splits and then cuts for the sends pots) and after the loops, how would that mess with it?

[eatyourguitar]

I sell a PCB that can almost be used for this. you could use the buffer side only and mix passively into the output buffer. this would bypass the one knob crossfader. you can probably use the crossfader but one of the returns would have no buffer so there is that. I did include a phase 180 switch on mine that is optional.



http://www.eatyourguitar.com/splitblendV01guide.pdf

sold here http://www.eatyourguitar.com

[cherler]

You can also use a pickup simulator to get back the interactions with from fuzz to your guitar electronics right? Something like this?

http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm

[eatyourguitar]

You can also use a pickup simulator to get back the interactions with from fuzz to your guitar electronics right? Something like this?

http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm

most of the time you do not need this. a germanium fuzz face however, I would say needs at least an input transformer if not an all out pickup simulator.

[Will Lee]

You can also use a pickup simulator to get back the interactions with from fuzz to your guitar electronics right? Something like this?

http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm

most of the time you do not need this. a germanium fuzz face however, I would say needs at least an input transformer if not an all out pickup simulator.

So I would run my signal into a buffer that splits into, say 3 loops each with that pickup sim circuit after it and then just the blend stage with phase inversion toggles right? (isn't there any way to adjust 90º, 180º, and 270º, if not another pot for that? that's minor but would probably be handy in loops with different numbers of pedals)
I obviously don't know much about electronics: intend to make this with a shin ei fy2 as my first proyects. I guessed both were quite simple (FY2 is)
What about the input transformer vs buffer? Would be best in this context if i'm gonna put pickup simulators in each line? Does how much sends (2, 3 or 4) depends on that and the input capacitor and resistor values? Or if it just splits or it's gonna blend it later..?
Ge fuzzs, envelope filters, wahs, and such as things i guess are cool but ring mod, analog up down octavers and such as things with problematic tracking would work better due to the pickup simulator too?)
Hehee.. too many questions, If there is a schematic or model of a splitter/blender that deals with germanium fuzzs controlling send level too i don't know it yet. That first stage before the split is just what i need to clear

[cherler]

Ge fuzzs, envelope filters, wahs, and such as things i guess are cool but ring mod, analog up down octavers and such as things with problematic tracking would work better due to the pickup simulator too?)

I mean the simplest thing is to just put your pickup sensitive pedals before the loop switcher and then just buffer the signal and split it out to each loop. Almost every pedal out there should be cool with having a buffer in front of it. If it doesn't HAVE to be first in your chain then it probably doesn't need pickup sims. I'd guess you need at most one simulator if you really want a fuzz face in one of the loops.

[crochambeau]

Yeah, inductance loading inputs or outputs is just a subset of tone control. If you're chasing a build complex enough to do 90 degree corrections, enabling a switchable floating load to rub on the sensitive side of a given device or two should be a walk in the park.

[eatyourguitar]

I think you should pick the gear before you build the parallel splitter. some wah's work with everything and you can put them anywhere while others do not. same with fuzz pedals. putting a pickup simulator in front of a boss delay or tripple rectifier pedal is a waste of time, tone, and money. use the right tool for the job.