[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NVVwZVd6ZM[/youtube]
I think Trumps a scumbag and a buffoon but might actually vote for him. I don't know. I don't think the majority of Trump supporters a nazis or racists or horrible people.
After this's all over, I hope the U.S. gov't bills Trump for the damage he's done to our reputation
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repoman
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
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D.o.S.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
Yeah I don't think most of them are actually nazis or racists, but you'd hope that the fact that supporting Trump puts you in that wheel house would be a bit of a deterrent for people.
I think that what Trump has done is very cynically played on the legitimate and unarticulated fears of a lot people in this country and done it in such a way that has illustrated just how skin-deep their relationship to the Republican Party was. Matt Taibi put it really well in that article I posted a few pages back:
"Elections, like criminal trials, are ultimately always about assigning blame. For a generation, conservative intellectuals have successfully pointed the finger at big-government-loving, whale-hugging liberals as the culprits behind American decline. But the fact that lots of voters hated the Clintons, Sean Penn, the Dixie Chicks and whomever else, did not, ever, mean that they believed in the principle of Detroit carmakers being able to costlessly move American jobs overseas by the thousands."
There are a lot of people who are sort of fucked as we transition out of being a manufacturing economy. They are fucked, and their grandparents weren't, or they weren't fucked but their grandkids seem to be, and they're looking around at everything that's different today from what was different 40 years ago and, through no small amount of goading, they arrive at the EPA and Mexicans and the employment situation for minorities and women. Hence -- build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, etc.
That doesn't mean they're shitty people, I guess, but it does mean they're actively buying into a disgrace of a candidate and they don't deserve absolution from that.
I think that what Trump has done is very cynically played on the legitimate and unarticulated fears of a lot people in this country and done it in such a way that has illustrated just how skin-deep their relationship to the Republican Party was. Matt Taibi put it really well in that article I posted a few pages back:
"Elections, like criminal trials, are ultimately always about assigning blame. For a generation, conservative intellectuals have successfully pointed the finger at big-government-loving, whale-hugging liberals as the culprits behind American decline. But the fact that lots of voters hated the Clintons, Sean Penn, the Dixie Chicks and whomever else, did not, ever, mean that they believed in the principle of Detroit carmakers being able to costlessly move American jobs overseas by the thousands."
There are a lot of people who are sort of fucked as we transition out of being a manufacturing economy. They are fucked, and their grandparents weren't, or they weren't fucked but their grandkids seem to be, and they're looking around at everything that's different today from what was different 40 years ago and, through no small amount of goading, they arrive at the EPA and Mexicans and the employment situation for minorities and women. Hence -- build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, etc.
That doesn't mean they're shitty people, I guess, but it does mean they're actively buying into a disgrace of a candidate and they don't deserve absolution from that.
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Chankgeez
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
So, what, honestly is the appeal of Trump as POTUS?
He has no experience in elected office.
Sure, he has an easily recognizable name.
That mostly seems to be due to his shotgun approach to business ventures and his stint as a reality TV star.
Name recognition alone is no reason to vote someone into our highest elected office though.
He has no experience in elected office.
Sure, he has an easily recognizable name.
That mostly seems to be due to his shotgun approach to business ventures and his stint as a reality TV star.
Name recognition alone is no reason to vote someone into our highest elected office though.
…...........................…psychic vampire. wrote:The important take away from this thread: Taoism and Ring Modulators go together?
Sweet dealin's: here
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D.o.S.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
I mean the easy answer to that is Bush/Clinton/Bush 
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hbombgraphics
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
every trump supporter I know has some ideological flaws in regards to other cultures. I only associate with a few and I have to because they are family in some way or another. But everyone of them has some huge thinking gaps in regards to how the world works.
Not super liberal myself on most political issues, and leaned towards republican candidates in previous elections (not you Mitt) , if trump is the republican nomination I will vote for Bernie or Hilary, if I haven't overthrown democracy by that point.
Not super liberal myself on most political issues, and leaned towards republican candidates in previous elections (not you Mitt) , if trump is the republican nomination I will vote for Bernie or Hilary, if I haven't overthrown democracy by that point.
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repoman
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
The world has been cut in two by the globalization of the economy. The urban upper classes of some of the big cities (financial New York and London, for instance, or tech-centered San Francisco, or literally any major European capital) have never been better off. But the benefits have been poorly spread, since the middle class is shrinking in these places. The gap between rich and poor is growing.
So here's the question that is unusual and no one ever asks: Why would you expect these places to have a middle class?
These cities have improved because they've, in a way, specialized. It's division of labor gone global. But the jobs of the middle class that used to do all over the US and Europe (a lot of manufacturing by the way) are best done elsewhere due to lower costs. You would not expect a middle class in these big cities any more than you would expect one on a cattle ranch. That's not what these cities are ~for~.
It's gentrification by rich people who can use these cities in a way that the old working and middle class cannot.
Here's the issue: if these cities don't need a middle class, they still need a lower class. These rich people require people clean their apartments, cut their sushi, serve their Starbucks coffee, walk their dogs, push their grandparents on wheelchairs. That means immigrants, and increasingly ONLY immigrants, because who else would want to do crap jobs for such low wages per hour?
Naturally, as rich people monopolize the increasingly expensive private housing stock (just check the prices in NYC or San Fran or Paris or London), poor newcomers monopolize the welfare housing. Housing projects aren't a drain on the rich's taxes then: they're subsidized housing for the new servant peasant class.
Big problems are develop eventually because of expectations of social mobility; those children of immigrants (the ones that assimilate) are going to find that there isn't a next rung on the social ladder for which their kids can ascend, minus the few talented and smart ones.
So this means more immigrants are constantly going to be needed perpetually, and you're going to see the people up top FOREVER arguing that immigration is good because it increases the working force. What they're not saying is that it's for their benefit and not the rest of society.
Naturally, since the media are part of this class that benefits from low cost labor, or are owned by people who benefit, they're going to peddle that this is good non-stop.
But the people on the outside of these cities? The people that aren't being seen on a daily basis by the media and the politicians?
The people who live there are doing badly, and they're seeing this as the outcome of a deliberate policy. They're mad as fuck.
And this means an electoral nightmare. This is because these people still constitute an electoral majority in the US and Europe, and they have chosen Trump and the far-right parties as the vehicle for their grievances, because they're the only ones who talks about this plight.
The center Left and the Right are built on voting shrinking bases. The base of the Left consist of those enriched by globalization and those protected from it (public employees). The base of the right is largely retirees, with some of the working class that has escaped harm for now.
Trump and co. are surging because THEIR base is now composed of globalization's losers, those left behind. And globalization, by its nature, along with automation, producers more losers than winners.
What we're seeing is basically the greatest revolt against the elite-led, globalization propagating status quo in a generation.
Of course the media is going to try to bring out all the big guns.
This is basically the apocalypse for them, doubly so because they all basically ignored him in the beginning of the campaign. This is bad because, these days, US presidents give preferential access to news outlets and reporters that gave favorable coverage to them. Just like how Ezra Klein's journalist career skyrocket (he went from having a Washington Post column to being the editor-in-chief of Vox) because he covered Obama favorably at the outset while everyone else was shilling for Hillary in 2008 (and why they're all shilling for her now; because she was the assumed victor from the outset).
If Trump wins, I assume Breitbart is going to get a lot of preferential treatment.
(this post kinda hits it on the head for me, from 4chan)
Of course you are automatically a racist, bigot nazi these days if you think your country should have an immigration policy built on law, just as every other well functioning country in the world does. And you are economically illiterate and morally bankrupt if you don't buy the stuff peddled by people that benefit from never ending growth of the federal government. And you possess 'ideological flaws' if you have some non PC opinions on different cultures and may even entertain the fact that people are not equal, and there are ups and downs in ever society/culture and some have more than others. Its funny how the right takes all the heat for being the KKK, and nazis, and literally hitler, when in the past decade or so, all large scale occurrences of political violence, looting, destruction of peoples stores, property and these embarrassing, frothing at the mouth mob mentality have come from movements of the left. But the "right" are the real bad guys right? The right hates poor people and they hate minorities and are just all rich greedy evil bigots.
So here's the question that is unusual and no one ever asks: Why would you expect these places to have a middle class?
These cities have improved because they've, in a way, specialized. It's division of labor gone global. But the jobs of the middle class that used to do all over the US and Europe (a lot of manufacturing by the way) are best done elsewhere due to lower costs. You would not expect a middle class in these big cities any more than you would expect one on a cattle ranch. That's not what these cities are ~for~.
It's gentrification by rich people who can use these cities in a way that the old working and middle class cannot.
Here's the issue: if these cities don't need a middle class, they still need a lower class. These rich people require people clean their apartments, cut their sushi, serve their Starbucks coffee, walk their dogs, push their grandparents on wheelchairs. That means immigrants, and increasingly ONLY immigrants, because who else would want to do crap jobs for such low wages per hour?
Naturally, as rich people monopolize the increasingly expensive private housing stock (just check the prices in NYC or San Fran or Paris or London), poor newcomers monopolize the welfare housing. Housing projects aren't a drain on the rich's taxes then: they're subsidized housing for the new servant peasant class.
Big problems are develop eventually because of expectations of social mobility; those children of immigrants (the ones that assimilate) are going to find that there isn't a next rung on the social ladder for which their kids can ascend, minus the few talented and smart ones.
So this means more immigrants are constantly going to be needed perpetually, and you're going to see the people up top FOREVER arguing that immigration is good because it increases the working force. What they're not saying is that it's for their benefit and not the rest of society.
Naturally, since the media are part of this class that benefits from low cost labor, or are owned by people who benefit, they're going to peddle that this is good non-stop.
But the people on the outside of these cities? The people that aren't being seen on a daily basis by the media and the politicians?
The people who live there are doing badly, and they're seeing this as the outcome of a deliberate policy. They're mad as fuck.
And this means an electoral nightmare. This is because these people still constitute an electoral majority in the US and Europe, and they have chosen Trump and the far-right parties as the vehicle for their grievances, because they're the only ones who talks about this plight.
The center Left and the Right are built on voting shrinking bases. The base of the Left consist of those enriched by globalization and those protected from it (public employees). The base of the right is largely retirees, with some of the working class that has escaped harm for now.
Trump and co. are surging because THEIR base is now composed of globalization's losers, those left behind. And globalization, by its nature, along with automation, producers more losers than winners.
What we're seeing is basically the greatest revolt against the elite-led, globalization propagating status quo in a generation.
Of course the media is going to try to bring out all the big guns.
This is basically the apocalypse for them, doubly so because they all basically ignored him in the beginning of the campaign. This is bad because, these days, US presidents give preferential access to news outlets and reporters that gave favorable coverage to them. Just like how Ezra Klein's journalist career skyrocket (he went from having a Washington Post column to being the editor-in-chief of Vox) because he covered Obama favorably at the outset while everyone else was shilling for Hillary in 2008 (and why they're all shilling for her now; because she was the assumed victor from the outset).
If Trump wins, I assume Breitbart is going to get a lot of preferential treatment.
(this post kinda hits it on the head for me, from 4chan)
Of course you are automatically a racist, bigot nazi these days if you think your country should have an immigration policy built on law, just as every other well functioning country in the world does. And you are economically illiterate and morally bankrupt if you don't buy the stuff peddled by people that benefit from never ending growth of the federal government. And you possess 'ideological flaws' if you have some non PC opinions on different cultures and may even entertain the fact that people are not equal, and there are ups and downs in ever society/culture and some have more than others. Its funny how the right takes all the heat for being the KKK, and nazis, and literally hitler, when in the past decade or so, all large scale occurrences of political violence, looting, destruction of peoples stores, property and these embarrassing, frothing at the mouth mob mentality have come from movements of the left. But the "right" are the real bad guys right? The right hates poor people and they hate minorities and are just all rich greedy evil bigots.
Last edited by repoman on Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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D.o.S.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
Yeah that's not actually accurate after the "They're mad as fuck" line, though. Even then the xenophobia is palpable -- which makes some sense, given the topic, but is whitewashed.
In fact I would say that it basically sinks the argument with it's hyperbole. For example: " these days US presidents give preferential access to news outlets and reporters that gave favorable coverage to them." is wrong. That's never not been the case. It also ignores where Trump's base is getting their rhetoric: it certainly wasn't from Trump's campaign alone.
LMAO that edit. Here's a fun one for you to digest: Someone might not be disagreeing with you because they want to be PC, they might actually be disagreeing with you because your positions are fucking asinine.
In fact I would say that it basically sinks the argument with it's hyperbole. For example: " these days US presidents give preferential access to news outlets and reporters that gave favorable coverage to them." is wrong. That's never not been the case. It also ignores where Trump's base is getting their rhetoric: it certainly wasn't from Trump's campaign alone.
LMAO that edit. Here's a fun one for you to digest: Someone might not be disagreeing with you because they want to be PC, they might actually be disagreeing with you because your positions are fucking asinine.
Last edited by D.o.S. on Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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hbombgraphics
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
This would make a heck of a lot more sense if Trump himself didn't benefit from the type of globalization that he is apparently speaking out against.
Gunner Recall wrote:This thread is bad and everyone in it should feel bad.
https://soundcloud.com/hbombgraphicsIommic Pope wrote:This thread is mediocre at best, but I encourage everyone posting in it to feel as awesome as possible.
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D.o.S.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
Wanting better immigration policy is not racist and bigoted. Saying we need to halt the influx of Muslim immigrants is. If you can't see the difference, suck my dick.
Not, you, you -- I like you. The nebulous 'you'.
Not, you, you -- I like you. The nebulous 'you'.
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hbombgraphics
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
D.o.S. wrote:Wanting better immigration policy is not racist and bigoted. Saying we need to halt the influx of Muslim immigrants is. If you can't see the difference, suck my dick.
Not, you, you -- I like you. The nebulous 'you'.
Do you really want people that ignorant all up on your man parts?
Gunner Recall wrote:This thread is bad and everyone in it should feel bad.
https://soundcloud.com/hbombgraphicsIommic Pope wrote:This thread is mediocre at best, but I encourage everyone posting in it to feel as awesome as possible.
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Gone Fission
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
Welcome to 2016, the year of the spite voter. It's been a long time coming: http://exiledonline.com/we-the-spiteful/Chankgeez wrote:So, what, honestly is the appeal of Trump as POTUS?
D.o.S. wrote:Broadly speaking, if we at ILF are dropping 300 bucks on a pedal it probably sounds like an SNES holocaust.
friendship wrote:death to false bleep-blop
UglyCasanova wrote:brb gonna slap my dick on my stomp boxes
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
Trump has bridged the gap between the people interviewed and the robotic plutocrat (with a generous helping of Meat Loaf warbling heedlessly of any monitors) from 2012 in this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY0M7IdNl7U[/youtube]
And he has done this without having his "anti-establishment" bona fides called into question because, after all:
- he is the filthy (filthier possibly than Romney) rich, unreachable asshole boss who has underpaid, underemployed, fired or laid off thousands
- he has employed (documented or otherwise) foreign workers and said so while saying in the following clause, laughably, we should reform our immigration system to benefit US workers
- he's sold snake oil to folks who bought into his brand of real estate mojo, which was really just the ongoing legacy of his having a rich developer father
- he calls in to or is otherwise reported on by, free of charge, the established corporate media, who realize that anything Trump garners hits and viewers regardless of the content he provides
The guy, wildly inconsistent in his prognoses when pressed, isn't the savior from neoliberalism: he is its logical symptom, as are the far right and bigoted figures across the pond. Rather than questioning the process by which democracy is further eroded in the political sphere (from forces originating in the undemocratic economic sphere -- hello declining union membership!), we'd rather the boot stomping our face did so more unashamedly, I guess
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY0M7IdNl7U[/youtube]
And he has done this without having his "anti-establishment" bona fides called into question because, after all:
- he is the filthy (filthier possibly than Romney) rich, unreachable asshole boss who has underpaid, underemployed, fired or laid off thousands
- he has employed (documented or otherwise) foreign workers and said so while saying in the following clause, laughably, we should reform our immigration system to benefit US workers
- he's sold snake oil to folks who bought into his brand of real estate mojo, which was really just the ongoing legacy of his having a rich developer father
- he calls in to or is otherwise reported on by, free of charge, the established corporate media, who realize that anything Trump garners hits and viewers regardless of the content he provides
The guy, wildly inconsistent in his prognoses when pressed, isn't the savior from neoliberalism: he is its logical symptom, as are the far right and bigoted figures across the pond. Rather than questioning the process by which democracy is further eroded in the political sphere (from forces originating in the undemocratic economic sphere -- hello declining union membership!), we'd rather the boot stomping our face did so more unashamedly, I guess
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Jwar
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
I wouldn't say that it's a spite vote. Hilary is a fucking criminal and has breached national security on a number of levels. The fact that she allowed to still run, is beyond me. The fact that she could President is dumbfounding. I just cannot fucking believe it. That bitch should be in fucking prison. Not running around picking up delegates. This country is completely fucked.
I think the appeal of Trump is regardless of he himself being a bloated windbag, we could potentially bring together a very good team of people who will perform well in the White House. Do I like Chris Christie?? FUCK NO. Sarah Palin?? OMG...no, just fucking no. Lol. He does however have lots of skilled people he's planning on using. Now whether or not they are the perfect people for the jobs? I'm not sure. Plus he has a raw and realness about him. If you look at the republican candidates, they all suck. All of them.
If you look at the Democratic candidates, I'd also say they all suck.
IMO the only good candidates have left the race. I would have vote for Rand Paul in a second, but that's just who I like.
Our election process is so fucked.
If you watched the GOP debate, which I did for awhile, before I couldn't handle it anymore. You'll notice something. They all have just about the same beliefs on everything. Trump however has some more erratic or let's be honest, retarded (no offense to the mentally handicapped) ideas. IE All of Islam hates us. Sigh. But they all suck. They all want a wall, which if I recall, wasn't true until recently unless I'm missing something here.
But, the issue here isn't just their beliefs or how inconsistent they are. Trump is especially inconsistent and can't seem to keep things straight. The issue to me is that the wealthy that are in bed with the government are controlling things here. The GOP is using all its resources to disband Trump. Why? Why would they do that? They are fucking scared, that's why. They know he won't put up with their shit and allow them to be asshats. I HATE the GOP.
The electoral college also needs to be done away with. It's fucking bullshit. We need to go with the popular vote IMO. Otherwise, what is the point in voting?
Right now, I'm pretty disgusted with the state of things. I don't know what I'll do come election day. It's sad. There just does not seem to be a good way this could end.
I think the appeal of Trump is regardless of he himself being a bloated windbag, we could potentially bring together a very good team of people who will perform well in the White House. Do I like Chris Christie?? FUCK NO. Sarah Palin?? OMG...no, just fucking no. Lol. He does however have lots of skilled people he's planning on using. Now whether or not they are the perfect people for the jobs? I'm not sure. Plus he has a raw and realness about him. If you look at the republican candidates, they all suck. All of them.
If you look at the Democratic candidates, I'd also say they all suck.
IMO the only good candidates have left the race. I would have vote for Rand Paul in a second, but that's just who I like.
Our election process is so fucked.
If you watched the GOP debate, which I did for awhile, before I couldn't handle it anymore. You'll notice something. They all have just about the same beliefs on everything. Trump however has some more erratic or let's be honest, retarded (no offense to the mentally handicapped) ideas. IE All of Islam hates us. Sigh. But they all suck. They all want a wall, which if I recall, wasn't true until recently unless I'm missing something here.
But, the issue here isn't just their beliefs or how inconsistent they are. Trump is especially inconsistent and can't seem to keep things straight. The issue to me is that the wealthy that are in bed with the government are controlling things here. The GOP is using all its resources to disband Trump. Why? Why would they do that? They are fucking scared, that's why. They know he won't put up with their shit and allow them to be asshats. I HATE the GOP.
The electoral college also needs to be done away with. It's fucking bullshit. We need to go with the popular vote IMO. Otherwise, what is the point in voting?
Right now, I'm pretty disgusted with the state of things. I don't know what I'll do come election day. It's sad. There just does not seem to be a good way this could end.
"I do not have the ability to think rationally 90% of the time and I also change my mind at the drop of a hat".
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waltdogg
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
jwar wrote:The electoral college also needs to be done away with. It's fucking bullshit. We need to go with the popular vote IMO. Otherwise, what is the point in voting?
D.o.S. wrote:Why do people eat steak that shit is gross
behndy wrote: lol. she thinks Brazil is wayyyy too unsafe. but i got PLANS.
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Mudfuzz
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS
waltdogg wrote:jwar wrote:The electoral college also needs to be done away with. It's fucking bullshit. We need to go with the popular vote IMO. Otherwise, what is the point in voting?