Modulation quest

[echorec]

echorec: where are you finding moogs that cheap? i've always been interested but have never seen one for 150. thanks for the suggestions. the other guitar player im jamming with uses some vfe dirt pedals that are killer. they hadnt been on my radar before but i'm impressed with what ive heard.

I love my VFE. It was a custom Enterprise with the so-called "water circuit". I think that's what the Tractor Beam evolved from. Even though I've got 14/16/18 stage phasers at my disposal, I love the 2/3/4 layouts of the VFE and the Empress.

I just did a history search on eBay and there were a few in the $160s for October/November. There's also pawn shops and forum postings. I paid around $125-145 for a Moog signature phaser that was scuffed to hell and smelled like Winstons through eBay. It worked perfectly though. You've just got to be patient and bid on auctions that end at terrible times----like a Monday auction that ends at 1:15pm. How many people are going to drop everything they're doing to try to snipe a pedal at 1:00 on a Monday? That's how I've built my modulation collection---flipping used gear and trading up over several years.

At one time I actually had 3 of these, but that was unnecessary. The third was basically unnoticeable in the mix (see Walter Murch and the rule of 2.5). I know some people try to ask for $220-260 on Reverb/eBay, but I would hold out for a better deal. I used to have all the black Moogs before I replaced them with the lunar whitewash enclosures.

http://jhimusic.com/blog/?p=121

This was part of my collection around 2012.



Also I think the most useful flangers are the ones that do odd, ethereal sounds (metallic clangs, alien groans)----but those are some of the most expensive pedals you can buy. ---Like the Lovetone ? Flange, Moog Cluster Flux, and Subdecay Starlight. I agree with the others who recommended the F.13. Something like that makes a lot more sense than the Maxon flangers or the Dano Psycho Flange (classic flange sounds). I've owned more flangers than anyone needs, and I think the F.13 is a much more inspiring device than several of its analog counter parts that would run you $220-350+.

[gnomethrone]

Excellent info. The f.13 is something I'd like to try. I stopped into guitar center and they had a zvex instant lofi junky that was kinda interesting but maybe a little too subtle. Hard to tell without running it through my own rig. I checked out a few of the usual boss suspects and ended up liking the ce-5 chorus ensemble more than I expected to. Depth all the way up, time all the way down, sounded pleasing to me. I always think of chorus as smells like teen spirit haha but this wasn't that. Gonna look at more chorus pedals. Oh finally got rid of that Keeley Phaser & got a little cash in the PayPal. Gonna snag something this week. Maybe I should start making demo vids so I can reference back.

[echorec]

The Cluster Flux is one of the wildest and most versatile boxes available, and if money was no object, I'd recommend that to anyone wanting to do otherworldly and sci-fi sounds. Some dealers still have its junior version on holiday sale for $150 right now.

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/277336- ... HwodPXkPnA

http://www.kraftmusic.com/moog-minifoog ... gQodhakCTQ

You might also check into either the Ventura Vibe or the Keeley ME-8 / 30MS pedals, if you're not opposed to going back to Keeley for something else. I'm not into the latest rotary simulator craze, but I do like some of those unbalanced, warbly tones from the Ventura. I'd rather use a dedicated pedal for those Leslie sounds though. I used the 30MS briefly and it was nice. It works beautifully if you pair it with delays, especially multi-head units. Double-tracking might be most famously associated with the Beatles, but was quite popular with Killing Joke's Geordie Walker, who used a rack ADT by Bell. Automatic double timers will give you a short delay, that's similar, but sometimes more pleasing than a traditional chorus. Of course that bright, shimmery sound many people identify as the classic chorus sound is all over 80s new wave, post-punk, and early alternative records.

You can hear the ADT on basically any Killing Joke track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhLCJLofNBE



As for the Instant Junky, the amp will make a huge difference I think. I played one at Chicago Music Exchange into a $2K boutique amp and it sounded amazing. I bought one right away, but then when I got home and ran it into a Vox AC30 CC2 and a pre-Gibson Trace Elliot, I lost so much of the sound I had heard in the store. I tweaked the EQ several times, but like you said, it was always too subtle. The nuance and the body was gone.

[gnomethrone]

Oh man that mini Cluster Flux might be just what I need. Deffinately worth spending some time with. There's this pigtronix ep2 envelope phaser on reverb for $150 right now.
https://reverb.com/item/1466236-pigtron ... ects-pedal
Looks fun, but it's huge and needs 18v power. Not ideal for this band board I'm trying to keep small and simple, but comes with the power supply and the guy says he's taking offers if anyone is interested.

[Chankgeez]

Cray.

Short slapback with slight detune is a great sound.

I also like:

• ring modulator > flanger
  ring modulator > Green Ringer
  ring modulator > phaser
  ring modulator > delay
  octave > ring modulator > delay

[echorec]

Oh man that mini Cluster Flux might be just what I need. Deffinately worth spending some time with. There's this pigtronix ep2 envelope phaser on reverb for $150 right now.
https://reverb.com/item/1466236-pigtron ... ects-pedal
Looks fun, but it's huge and needs 18v power. Not ideal for this band board I'm trying to keep small and simple, but comes with the power supply and the guy says he's taking offers if anyone is interested.

I sold mine, and I think everyone I know who purchased one did as well. It's not a bad pedal by any means and I've enjoyed other Pigtronix offerings, but I just don't think it had much wow factor. In that $150 range, I would recommend a used Whetstone or the VFE over the EP2 10 times out of 10. I imagine, though, you'll be mixing things up pretty frequently for a while, as you try to nail down a new sound. Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gs3TmGrCqc

[echorec]

Cray.

Short slapback with slight detune is a great sound.

I also like:

• ring modulator > flanger
  ring modulator > Green Ringer
  ring modulator > phaser
  ring modulator > delay
  octave > ring modulator > delay

What's your main RM? I've had a Moog for a while, but I also used the Way Huge Ringworm for a while. I mostly use it for tremolo sounds, but I think RM on brass and piano is a great sound.

[lordgalvar]

Ring Mod! With everything! Before, after, wherever, whenever!

[Chankgeez]

What's your main RM? I've had a Moog for a while, but I also used the Way Huge Ringworm for a while. I mostly use it for tremolo sounds, but I think RM on brass and piano is a great sound.

Randy's Revenge (and various Green Ringer clones, if you count those as actual ring mods and not just ring mod-ish).

I had a Moog back when they were Big Briar. I have a Moody Way on the way.

The tremolo sounds from ring modulators are fantastic. That's mostly what I ended up using the Big Briar for. That was really before I knew how to use a ring mod though. The range on those Moogs and level of expression controlability is really what makes 'em shine. I like the basic sound of the Randy's Revenge better though. Yeah, ring mod on Rhodes or electric piano is a stupendous sound. I was just playing some Baroque sounding stuff on guitar and thought the ring mod would be really nice on harpsichord.

[gnomethrone]

i couldn't decide on a minimoog but i wanna save up and get their full size phaser or clusterflux to use for for this other project i'm starting to write crap for. i messaged about the diamond quantum leap outta the BST: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=50296
it does all kinds of junk and i figure something will be usable. being able to do weird stuff in the modulation modes with the second footswitch appeals to me.

[gnomethrone]

anybody ever try the rocktron hypnotic flange? the only rocktron pedal i ever had was a "short timer" digital delay that was pretty cool.

theres a few for like $40 bucks on reverb. i cant find any decent demos but the random lfo mode seems pretty groovy. it is like 3 times the size it should be but it has a "trance" knob so im feeling it.

[echorec]

Have you looked into the Mooer mod factory? It's not analog and it doesn't have TT, but it would give you a lot of sounds to experiment with for about $70. With it you might be able to form a better idea of which effects to prioritize going forward.

http://www.amazon.com/Mooer-MMF1-Factor ... er+factory

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... od+factory

[gnomethrone]

that lil guy looks neat but this came in the mail today so i got a few different things to explore:

has really nice chorus and flange modes as well as a some washy lofi digital delays with wobble. really feeling the flange. only got to mess with it for a bit but really stoked on it. wouldnt pay full price for one but its rad. the "harmonic delay" mode makes totally bonkers sega genesis noises which is nice too haha. trying to get my bandmates to do some recording this weekend so i may have clips to post.

[sylnau]

I would suggest you to look at the SubDecay Starlight MkII.
On my side, the search in over.

Starlight MkII + Mid-Fi Electric Yggdrasil on my board cover all my needs.

[Chankgeez]

SubDecay has a blem Starlight for sale on their B-Stock page right now.