Hardcore

[D.o.S.]

Yeah I would love to see how far "I write for Vice" gets you when you're expected to live in NYC on $20k a year.

[daseb]

Trying to 'get your message out' via noisey is never going to work though. The reality of what a band like G.L.O.S.S. speaks for will be treated as cultural tourism at best by media and I can definitely understand not wanting your stuff up there sandwhiched between converse and jagermeister ads. You also open yourself up to a tonne of ignorant criticism from people who dont get it and dont want to get it. Why invite more of that into your life if its something you deal with on a daily basis? That story is at least as old as riot grrrl.

And that's assuming the band wants to get a message out in the first place. It's fucking tiring every time a band comes out like that and everyone treats them as standard bearers for the marginalised. How about the rest of us make room for them instead of expecting them to do it for themselves?


Anyway have a rad band from australia.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ6ggoUwE2w[/youtube]

[PeteeBee]

Yeah I tend to think NYT and Vice count deeply as inside societies shit.

Edit. That manhunt is super sick

[casecandy]

And that's assuming the band wants to get a message out in the first place. It's fucking tiring every time a band comes out like that and everyone treats them as standard bearers for the marginalised. How about the rest of us make room for them instead of expecting them to do it for themselves?

This is a very fair argument.

Trans punk has already had a standard bearer in the last year or so via Against Me!, so maybe they don't want to be lumped in with that band, or any other trans bands that are out there. Maybe they just wanna be a punk band.

[lordgalvar]

Yea, I get a little sick of that "standard bearer" stuff too daseb. Just be a band. Like a band 'cause you like a band. Don't gotta make it a thing. Vice/Noisey gets on my nerves with that stuff (and a lot of the fanzines and media I have read in general).

When I checked out that demo of g.l.o.s.s. (don't even know why I did versus some other stuff posted here...timing I guess) I had no idea they were a thing or part of a movement (if they even are)...I just kinda thought it sounded good. I dunno.

Maybe it is good that I am out of scenes and the "in-the-know" circles these days. I just listen and if I like it I listen again and try to pick up some kind of release. I know a lot of people I used to kick it with used to get caught up in the "these guys represent what I represent...so I swear by them"...which is why resist and exist even was a thing (in my opnion). I don't really associate with any scene punks anymore. Just go in blank and see what happens (and it is kind of freeing in a lot of ways).

Personally, if someone said they liked my band or wanted to talk to me because of some cultural/social/something that someone in the band happened to be and not because of us being a good band I would be kind of insulted.

I have a few friends that get art shows just because of who they are despite being terrible (and I mean bad) artists. They are great people and friends, but people build them up and really validate their art because of what they represent as a person and not with their art. I feel kind of bad for them because no one is actually encourages them to get better at their craft (I try, but I'm not in the "scene" just a friend which makes it hard when people perceived as "like" them constantly validates them...my other friend though totally knows he is playing the system and loves that he reaps the benefits...I guess it all comes down to perspective and the individual...all I can do is support them and be a good friend...so yea). But personally, I don't like that someone views something about the world around my work as more important than my actual creation (and I even hated it when people only liked our band because one dude knew some other dude in a band with some "cool and hip" dude and they used to play a ton of shows together).

If someone resonates with you with their words within a work, that is totally awesome...but liking something because "hey, these guys were freedom fighters and anarchists that gave it to the man"(for example) is lame. I think that Vice and a lot of media always right from that perspective. When they write about Crass, they always talk about what Dial House represented or what's on Penny's mind...never criticism about the actual art and music.

I don't know.

Manhunt was a good listen man. Thanks.

Fuck, LG stop rambling. Leave it alone haha. I know you all love hardcore, but with the exception of the Japanese stuff...I find myself getting kind of sick of it for a while and coming back in spurts to revisit some of it...but kind of get tired of it sometimes.

[lordgalvar]

http://www.publicpressure.org/is-the-re ... a-fashion/

That article kind of bothered me...just seemed like they needed something to put up...who cares what the reason is why old bands reform? Sometimes it's for money, sometimes time happened and lives changed, sometimes they never broke up (just nobody cared), and sometimes it is just because it is fun. Sure nostalgia is a part of it and so are trends...but it if it is something you like, who cares?

Asking a person in a band why they think they are getting more play or their opinion on popularity is sometimes like asking for the meaning of life. Of course you are going to get an answer, but because they don't want to say "I don't know" or something they may say the first thing that comes to mind. There is too many things that go into any movement, resurgence, trend, etc.

All it the article says is "I went to a show". And then the socio-political comment..arrrgg

No reason to get caught up in all this stuff anymore. I am much happier just being at home listening to what I want and going to shows that I want instead of going to every show and be part of scene "'cause I might miss something" and "gotta stay cool with everyone".

Saw these guys not to long ago...and it was ok:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV-MnHBpByo[/youtube]

I dunno about this stuff yet (sometimes I like it, sometimes, eh?):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wUX-2SvbC8[/youtube]

[daseb]

Hmmm, think I didn't make myself that clear...it's more my point that like, G.L.O.S.S. are doing what they do for their reasons and, from what they've said, for other people on their same trip.

Long one:

NSFW: show

I don't think it should be up to a queer/femme/trans band to wave a flag in everyone's face and be like 'this is how you should treat everyone, so sayeth we, the official representatives of LGBTQI people in punk rock, meet our rules and you'll be okay'. It should be up to ordinary arse straight white boys to educate themselves, make spaces in the scene available and be respectful for other people who are shut out of normal life. It shouldn't be that those other people have to do all the heavy lifting by themselves. They have to do enough of that in their day to day life. Us ordinary hardcore boys have it much easier and could serve to share more of the load, especially for something like punk that's meant to be a place for freaks and weirdos.

Now I personally think I try to be a pretty good dude with respecting and understanding this stuff, but I know I can't speak for what it's like for G.L.O.S.S. at all. That's the point. If I can't, can you trust a corporate monolith to and not fuck it up or make it insulting? It's post structuralism 101 that any sort of resistance culture will be bought up, defanged and sold back to the kids if at all possible.

So in the case of G.L.O.S.S what I admire about telling the media to get fucked is realising that, and being like 'it's not worth it, this for us, not for you, fuck off'. That's incredibly powerful to me when it seems like the whole conversation around getting into bed with the corporate world has disappeared from punk (and look how hard that came back to bite that dork from Thursday).

Manhunt are killer. Seeing them on the weekend, stoked. Another killer australian band with female members:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuVpwHnEYeA[/youtube]

And this one, I heard their guitarist is pretty awesome despite the fact that he used a rickenbacker 330 on this recording

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oXrt2BjtqM[/youtube]

[casecandy]

it seems like the whole conversation around getting into bed with the corporate world has disappeared from punk (and look how hard that came back to bite that dork from Thursday).

I definitely hope the entire punk community learned that lesson in the last few weeks. Geoff Rickley, who is one of my favourite dorks, actually, has severed all tied with Shkreli and his dirty AIDS money, putting his label in dire financial straights in the meantime. That was a good call and I think he'll be more discriminate in the future. Brand New were pretty pissed that Shkreli was photographed wearing one of their t-shirts and, in a pretty classy move, put the shirt on sale 20%, donating all proceeds of its sale to AIDS research.

I don't know why such a heartless asshole was listening to such emotionally resonant and poignant music. What did it mean to him? What did he hear in Brand New and Thursday? When he memorised the lyrics to those songs, what exactly was he thinking? Like... "Ah, I've got it. I know the true meaning of 'Understanding In A Car Crash.' Ol' Geoff was telling me to raise the price of AIDS drugs by 500%. What a great songwriter." Fucking pisses me off. If you're listening to emo but you're not living it you're not true emo at all, not true punk at all. (Cf. School of Rock .gif posted earlier in thread.)

One of my favourite quotes about music:



Fun fact, the word "dork" actually refers to a whale's penis.

[lordgalvar]

Ah, I thought about it from that angle too, but don't know a damn thing about them except for that 8 minutes or whatever it was my background music haha. So I kind of tried to avoid making assumptions about them. I did get off on a pretty good tangent...I'm guilty of rambling...most of my comments were about Vice's interest in selling a product to their readers.

I guess part of that leap of understanding that the whole punk thing is a collection of freaks and just being respectful of other people and stuff (and learning in general) is something that is so a part of me that I don't even think of it anymore. Like I just see people as individuals and not "Oh that's the queerpunk and that's the emo guy"...I dunno (I mean I do it to a point with skins and class stuff///unnatural hate for really rich people...can't ever totally separate yourself). I've gotten it the other way where they assume that I judge people because they are queer (being a white straight cis-male..) but whatever, I can try to understand* where they are coming from. But like you said daseb, no matter how much you think you know or how good of a dude you try to be, you never really know and it gets worse when people are trying to sell a story. I guess understanding that is a big part of the battle? I don't know if a lot of people can think like that though.

Refering to the comments about telling vice to "fuck off" from I guess the perspective of why would vice or a media outlet even be interested in a particular band over another (and I know most Vice writers are freelance contractors just trying to sell a story).

Basically, I'm on the same page...just overthinking like an idiot.

Don't like being force fed anything in general...lost a lot of friends over issues like you mention about "being educated". I don't mind it, but when it gets to the level of attack and assumed ignorance (despite effort shown to the contrary) it get's real old. But I'm not going to talk about that bad blood because it was pretty hurtful the shit people said in scenes to me because of what they perceived me as (even though I just thought of them as friends...which is a lot of the reason I got out and just do what the fuck I want).

Sorry about all the confusion man. Really like hearing your thoughts, daseb.

*understand is a tough word...I mean that, through logic and empathy I can relate certain feelings to experiences I have had

[daseb]

Yeah I've definitely lost a few friends and had assumptions made about me over the years (and currently) because I don't advertise my shit, and could be a complete arsehead at points, and these days I'm a total house owning normal married to a lady with fifteen dogs who doesn't go to shows other than the ones I'm playing that much. I mean intellectualising it as 'this is nothing compared to what that person faces daily' and '90% of the time when they make those assumptions about someone they're right' doesn't make it suck less when you lose friends, or some spoilt rich kid activist claims you're not letting them into the show for free because you're a homophobe*. But hopefully those people are happy and you know, privilege is a thing and it makes life shitty for everyone in varying ways.

It fucking sucks but so does life.

You know who was a good band who helped me think about this stuff? These guys:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW600Smdcac[/youtube]




*actually happened to me once.

[D.o.S.]

Also worth noting: they're still validating the NYT and Vice by name dropping them as institutions that notate quality. "We said no to Vice" doesn't mean shit if there's an assumption that Vice is unimportant.

No one cares about Brand New or Thursday except people who deserve death.

[lordgalvar]

Thanks for the good bands, daseb.

Totally agree with yea about the friend and assumption stuff.

And D.o.S., totally agree with all of that. But...it gets tricky when you are just talking or asked about something...kind of like what I said before about that article about Part1 at the DIY space. Sometimes people just say stuff. I mean they could've just not said that they did what they did in reference to Vice, but they did. As to the underlying intent (to validate themselves by validating Vice, or it was just a comment they made when asked or chatting to someone else) there is no way to really know. But I do agree that using Vice as "the man" does give them a quality (or however you characterize it).

[BoatRich]

Trying to 'get your message out' via noisey is never going to work though. The reality of what a band like G.L.O.S.S. speaks for will be treated as cultural tourism at best by media and I can definitely understand not wanting your stuff up there sandwhiched between converse and jagermeister ads. You also open yourself up to a tonne of ignorant criticism from people who dont get it and dont want to get it. Why invite more of that into your life if its something you deal with on a daily basis? That story is at least as old as riot grrrl.

And that's assuming the band wants to get a message out in the first place. It's fucking tiring every time a band comes out like that and everyone treats them as standard bearers for the marginalised. How about the rest of us make room for them instead of expecting them to do it for themselves?


Anyway have a rad band from australia.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ6ggoUwE2w[/youtube]

This is pretty much how I feel about it too. I think people put way too large an emphasis on how "radical" bands like this are when realistically it's just queer people doing the exact same thing they're already doing. The fact that it's radical to be openly trans/non binary/queer in a supposedly accepting scene is enough of an issue already without having to cater to the whims/questions of a bunch of straight white tough guy types.

[D.o.S.]

There's nothing accepting about whatever punk scene you can identify under the label. Never has been. It's as exclusive as a varsity football team (and more conservative/reactionary) the criteria is just a little different.

[BoatRich]

There's nothing accepting about whatever punk scene you can identify under the label. Never has been. It's as exclusive as a varsity football team, and equally reactionary, the criteria is just a little different.

I'm not arguing that at all. It's a big part of the reason I don't go to shows and barely deal with hardcore kids anymore.