Sampling, Samplers; Property, Appropriation

[penelope tree]

I would like to experiment more with sampling and I know a lot of ILF users are experienced in that area. For those of you that dabble with sampling I'm intrigued about your approach and I have a few questions:

Do you use a computer or dedicated hardware?
What kind of things do you like to sample and how does the technique enhance your music?
For those of you that sample from films, tv, recorded music, etc, do any legal considerations ever concern you?

[Inconuucl]

iPad (samplr) is my to go, small enough to use everywhere, powerful enough to mangle the recording to bits.
I mostly sample my own playing for glitchy mangling, but besides that I always sample things like nature, demolitions/construction sounds, old radio, old tv, old political speeches.
As long as it's old enough and not dealing with copyrighted shit you're good.
Oh, I also love sampling street performances and stuff, or orchestras tuning.

[lordgalvar]

I usually sample in a live environment (process and sample via hardware as I play through a video or sound). In some of the noise stuff I use the voices/speech as the basis to build everything off of (kinda like a rhythm) or will just use other sounds to build a sharp, short beat. Nothing complicated. I have used and use various different things from cassettes, ipod playing sounds or youtubes, roland s330, sampling pedals (like DSD-2), etc. Prefer the pedals and ipod honestly. Back in the day, Operation Reinformation had a program that let you map out a sample for every key on a qwerty keyboard to a different sample that I loved (but I haven't seen it in years). Did not like/agree with the MPC1000...but I know that was my fault.

KLF dealt with a lot of that legal stuff and pushed the bounderies. Daft punk sampled most of the stuff from Discovery too...I think if it is changed/twisted enough, there usually isn't a problem.

I usually sample public records (meant domain)...a lot of interesting stuff out there. But the legal stuff does get to me sometimes. I think if you give credit and stay on a small enough level, copyright should not give you any problems. If you get bigger, have deals, etc., I assume a legal department will help you deal with it (or someone that is experienced in that). There may be some problems with some pressing plants though.

As for more specific information, I am sure someone else could direct ya more.

[Inconuucl]

On that regard, keep a file with the sources to your samples.

[D.o.S.]

^Great advice -- another way to do that is to name the file with the sample source
SP303.

If you sample stuff from films/tv/music just mangle it until no one will know. Or use public domain stuff -- there's a ton of it.

[DRodriguez]

Word of warning, sampling is becoming a bigger and bigger legal battle. Some of the most sampled pieces are starting to come out of the woodwork and suing. You will definitely start to see more and more cases coming up, with increased frequency, in the future.

To be completely clear, regardless of morality or any of those things, sampling anything not in the public domain,without permission, and releasing it in any form, is illegal. Cover songs are legal with a set of guidelines and there is a government mandated reasonable fee involved, but there is no such thing with sampling. A lot of people will give you guidelines such as it's fine if it's under x amount of time, or if you do such and such to it, not true. It is illegal without a contract or agreement between you and the rights holder. Rights holder is an important word, because the way the industry is structured, there may be many rights holders involved, and it often is not even the artist.

It is more legal (now a grey area) to recreate a sample with your own recording, and use it. However you may see a decline in this after the recent lawsuit involving the song Blurred Lines,won by the estate of Marvin Gaye. This is the first case (which I'm aware of) about stealing the "feel" of a song.

Now, how do you apply all this to your music.

If you are doing a minor release for no profit, you likely will not run into any issues. But it would be very smart to keep track of the sources of every sample just in case you need to acquire rights. Expect there is a small possibility a rights holder could legally kill your release.

If you are doing a small self release for profit, you likely will not run into any issues. But it would be very smart to keep track of the sources of every sample just in case you need to acquire rights. Expect there is a small possibility a rights holder could legally kill your release. There is now a higher chance, still relatively small, you will be contacted with a settlement offer to make any issues go away out of court.

If you are signed to a label. Absolutely give them a list of every sample used, what format you sampled it from, etc. They will likely tell you which ones you can use, and which ones you need to recreate. If you are signed to a major label, you may be allowed to sample other in house artists. You can still run into legal issues, but odds are the label will manage the risk and the battles. If you do not disclose the samples to your label, odds are highest they will pass the shit stick to you.

There is also an increased risk these days with the advancement of audio watermarking and/or recognition technology which can survive mangling to a degree.

[lordgalvar]

That's good, specific information. Thanks! Really fleshes out and confirms my thoughts and suspicions. I knew most samples were illegal which is why I stayed in the public domain.

Audio watermarking? Hows that work (like it reveals itself via conpression or something...or is it a digital thing? like DRM? If you sample it onto a tape and then back to a sampler and then into a songvit would technically loose all extra data...which is part of the old debate (in the 1990s)...when is far enough away?)...I never let any of the grind or punk bands I recorded put samples from Dumb and Dumber (or wherever dumb movie) when I was setting it up (if they did it afterwards...).

But yea, I knew everything is copyrighted and could create a legal issue (I remember KMFDM recalling a whole album and re-releasing it for one like under 10 second sample back in the 1990s). Messing with someone like the MPAA is bad, bad news. Those dudes got Disney researchers thrown in jail for libel and junk.

I like field recordings and public domain more anyway.

Watch out with recording people without their knowledge. Every state has different rules and stuff...but most people wouldn't know it was them anyway .

I know in California you have to notify the other party that you are recording via phone or something or else it is considered private (at least in legal proceedings...but I am sure they could get the recording pulled if they made a stink about not knowing they were recorded). This is part of the Donald Sterling controversy...and why he had grounds to supress (but he was still a rascist, rich-ass, a-hole m-fer)

[ThurberMingus]

To play it safe I just sample my own material/sounds. Anything I jokingly mock up (a la vaporwave that only I and a few select close friends will hear) gets deleted before it's committed/rendered. Then again, I don't really ever plan on charging money for my solo electronic stuff unless I can find a way to play live with it.

I use Samplr also in tandem with other iPad apps and it is a ton of fun. I find it hard to make linear "song" songs with it though. Mainly just ambient loops and mangles.

[Inconuucl]

Come up with 3-4 different variations of the same soundscape, then transfer them to your daw and make a track with them. The beauty of how Samplr is designed is that it's easy to make repeating loops.

[D.o.S.]

There is also an increased risk these days with the advancement of audio watermarking and/or recognition technology which can survive mangling to a degree.

This would actually be a really awesome forum game.

Have someone (person A) assign a sample to someone else (person B) with instructions to 'mangle to a degree' (i.e. use the whole sample not just like 1 milisecond) and have other people (C-Z) try to figure out what it was.

So DRodz gives Dr. Dre Woman to Woman, Dr. Dre Turns that into the intro of California Love, and then Lord Galvar says "hey motherfucker that's Joe Cocker" but more indepth, since that's not mangled in the slightest.

[penelope tree]

iPad (samplr) is my to go, small enough to use everywhere, powerful enough to mangle the recording to bits.
I mostly sample my own playing for glitchy mangling, but besides that I always sample things like nature, demolitions/construction sounds, old radio, old tv, old political speeches.
As long as it's old enough and not dealing with copyrighted shit you're good.
Oh, I also love sampling street performances and stuff, or orchestras tuning.

Can you record things within the samplr app or do you use a different program for that purpose? Also, do you use the iPad's built in microphone? I thought the Zoom IQ-5 or IQ-6 might be a useful acquisition.

[penelope tree]

To be completely clear, regardless of morality or any of those things, sampling anything not in the public domain,without permission, and releasing it in any form, is illegal. Cover songs are legal with a set of guidelines and there is a government mandated reasonable fee involved, but there is no such thing with sampling. A lot of people will give you guidelines such as it's fine if it's under x amount of time, or if you do such and such to it, not true. It is illegal without a contract or agreement between you and the rights holder. Rights holder is an important word, because the way the industry is structured, there may be many rights holders involved, and it often is not even the artist.

Presumably the legal situation varies quite significantly from state to state and America has the reputation of having a highly litigious culture. What kind of recordings would be classed as being in the public domain?

If you are doing a small self release for profit, you likely will not run into any issues. But it would be very smart to keep track of the sources of every sample just in case you need to acquire rights. Expect there is a small possibility a rights holder could legally kill your release. There is now a higher chance, still relatively small, you will be contacted with a settlement offer to make any issues go away out of court.

What kind of fees could be involved in these circumstances? Are there established conventions?

[lordgalvar]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

[Inconuucl]

iPad (samplr) is my to go, small enough to use everywhere, powerful enough to mangle the recording to bits.
I mostly sample my own playing for glitchy mangling, but besides that I always sample things like nature, demolitions/construction sounds, old radio, old tv, old political speeches.
As long as it's old enough and not dealing with copyrighted shit you're good.
Oh, I also love sampling street performances and stuff, or orchestras tuning.

Can you record things within the samplr app or do you use a different program for that purpose? Also, do you use the iPad's built in microphone? I thought the Zoom IQ-5 or IQ-6 might be a useful acquisition.

In a hurry I use the iPAd mic, but it is preferable to have one if you're recording. And I normally (when using samplr) only use the internal recorder when I'm playing with it directly, like making beats by banging on the table or a glass or whatever. Not because it's a bad recorder, quite the opposite, but because I like to use iMusicAlbum's Master Record which has all sort of junky sounding tape emulations that I really like.

[lordgalvar]

There is also an increased risk these days with the advancement of audio watermarking and/or recognition technology which can survive mangling to a degree.

This would actually be a really awesome forum game.

Have someone (person A) assign a sample to someone else (person B) with instructions to 'mangle to a degree' (i.e. use the whole sample not just like 1 milisecond) and have other people (C-Z) try to figure out what it was.

So DRodz gives Dr. Dre Woman to Woman, Dr. Dre Turns that into the intro of California Love, and then Lord Galvar says "hey motherfucker that's Joe Cocker" but more indepth, since that's not mangled in the slightest.

I actually think that would be fun...just have to find a way to do it with out getting Tom D. in trouble.