we are truly the scene that celebrates itself.

[htsamurai]

Mark reminded me of something.
Nowadays I spend so little time with other musicians outside of playing for/with them that I'd forgotten.
The amount of dirt pedals I have is overkill for most, and 97% of the people who hear my stuff wont be able to appreciate the effort I put into tones.
This is what Mark said.

honestly, with the kind of fuzzes I see being used around here, the type of guitar makes almost no difference. Your putting your signal through something that has been so destroyed and shaped that so little of the original "information" is left... idk, that's just my opinion. I personally can't hear a guitar by the time it's through something like a Devi Ever or similar stuff...

idk, I still feel like, from a purely electronic (eletrical? audio singal-al?) standpoint, your making the signal almost fully a square wave, and when you do that, theres not much individuality to the source... Obviously there may be a bit of difference but like, run a strat clean and I can tell you its a strat. run a les paul, and i can tell you its a les paul. Through those fuzzes all I hear is way too much gain and (to my ears, what it sounds like is) a circuit that isn't working right. That's literally what goes through my head when I hear something with "velcro" decay or when notes cut out. Maybe I'm just noobish but I don't understand how you can hear the subtle nuances of a tone when the pedal cuts out your sound every 2 seconds...

See now, if we were talking about, like a FuzzFace or a Tonebender or a Red Llama or Swollen Pickle, then I would understand, but "modern" fuzzes are just... puzzling to me.

Which reminded me, I could run a squier aff. strat, bridge pickup only, through a hot head or bad monkey into a spyder 2 and most people couldn't tell the difference between that and my modded strat -> SHO -> P&C -> ABSynth -> 4x10 deville
but any of you guys (well most of you <.<) could tell me not only the difference, but even go so far as to, without me telling you what the rig was, ask what I was running into the ABSynth (because, well, we tend to be pretty familiar with each others rigs and the tones that the ABSynth produces are pretty well known around here)

Look at PPs deviboard.
Look at Gunner's ILF collection.
Look at NWs...well anything he owns, he owns one of everything, right?
blah..
I guess what I'm saying is that at the end of the day, the only people that are going to appreciate the work we put into tonecrafting are going to be people like ourselves.

[deadbeatriot]

then fuck everybody else


you'll pry my fuzz from my cold, dead hands

[Bassus Sanguinis]

Well... if You happen be a bass player You're regularly reminded by a vast majority of unknown sound engineers You're supposed only to back up for the rhythm guitar and follow the drums. No, really, I'm not making this up guys. I have been, on numerous occasions over the pedals they have probably supposed belonging to the presupposed rhythm guitarist of the group. Even when there was none, and the low end dirge assault was the bands marketing slot even the engineers at venue had heard.

[jrmy]

I dunno, man... Mark's just coming from one particular philosophy, which happens to be the philosophy of The Guitar. In a sense, he's right - by adding all of these pedals, we fundamentally change the sound of the instrument. But that's the point - we're approaching the instrument from a different end of the spectrum.

That said, most of us don't have all of our pedals on all the time (except when we want THAT SOUND, the sound of the heavens being torn screaming from the earth ah, I loves it so) - there are times when most of us let our amp or instrument or both shine through sans extras. I have a ton of dirt pedals, but they go on at very specific moments, to do very specific things. They're just another tool in the box. And if there's a song where I keep a pedal (or two or three) on for the whole time, well, there's a reason for that - that's the sound I wanted at that time, for that composition.

As for the whole "we are the only people that appreciate these sounds" claim, I don't think that's true at all... we know about these sounds and the devices that make them in greater depth than much of the population outside this board, but that's why we're here - banded together by our love of the minutia of fuzz. There are plenty of people who like the sounds I make with my ILF boxes who couldn't care less how I make those sounds or who built the little boxes. They just like that wall o' fuzz hurtling at their heads at Mach 10.

So he's right, but so are we. It's music, right? Just organized sound... how you achieve that sound is moot. Except, of course, to you (and me, and him) and where you stand in your own personal philosophy of music...

[Nychthemeron]

I think jrmy just hit the nail on the head right there.

[veteransdaypoppy]

When I show people all the sounds I can make with my guitar, they're typically amazed.
I can hear the difference between my tele through the WC and my strat through the WC.
My band's use of FX is always well-received. I've always thought of people who don't dig fuzz or FX in general to be a bit snobbish.
I've made this analogy a thousand times, but if you're an amazing painter, and you want to create your masterpiece, how many different colors would you want at your disposal?
How is that any different than having as many sounds as possible to incorporate into your songwriting or improvisation?

And lastly, if Mark wants to rag on something, rag on ring modulation. Cuz that's hardly a musical effect at all... but I still love it.

[htsamurai]

ok maybe I made a mistake quoting Mark, I love the guy
(and if you don't, meet me outside after dark, wear comfortable clothes..)

I think I agree w/ the jrmiez actually.
hm.

[jrmy]

ok maybe I made a mistake quoting Mark, I love the guy
(and if you don't, meet me outside after dark, wear comfortable clothes..)

I think I agree w/ the jrmiez actually.
hm.

STOP AGREEING WITH ME SO MUCH! YOU'RE GIVING ME A COMPLEX ALREADY!!!

[FuzzHugger]

I agree with Jrmy.

I also don't like the word "scene"...few of us actually belong to the same "scene" here. There are metalheads, indie guys, drone, noise, hiphop, and more that I've come across here (labels...and I personally fit into a couple of those groups, as do others here). HT, you made a thread yourself about some people not accepting/expecting you in the rock or guitar scene. I've seen about every kind of player/style and person represented on ILF. (From music genres, to politics, to sexual preference, ILF runs the gamut!)
Sure, there's a certain noise and drone group here, but I'm not a part of it, and neither are most people who use my pedals...though I'm psyched if/when they find use in that genre!
Also, the hosted manufacturers cover quite a range...different philosophies on sound, construction, aesthetics, etc. So, despite being a tight-knit group, I don't think ILF fits one style or scene. Plus, most of the people using my effects don't post on ILF, so they're unaccounted for when it comes to how / what style they're using my pedals for. But I know from emails that there's a wide range. (There are a good batch of blues guys out there digging their Algal Blooms!)

Anyway, about the philosophy side...yes, personally I'd rather buy a new pedal than a new guitar. Cause for me, I can get way more mileage out of one guitar and many pedals, than I can with many guitars and 0-3 pedals. For me, anything over three electrics starts to get redundant...however, I own two electrics, and with my pedals (even the extreme ones) you can easily hear and feel the difference between the two guitars.
Of course, there are extreme signal-murdering pedals out there, which fulfill a certain desire/use for certain musicians!
But I take exception to the idea that combining any fuzz or two ends up sounding the same; maybe it's just me, but I notice huge differences in response, attack, clipping density, sustain, gate, texture...

One final note on effects enthusiasts--there are musicians who use a couple effects, and musicians that love effects. I don't play noise or drone, but I can sure have an awesome time with an oscillating pedal or even a signal-murdering pedal. I use my effects differently when I'm home alone messing around compared to how I use them when I play live...but I love using them in both settings. I just love pedals, messing with them, hearing them, jamming on them, and seeing what I can make them do!
I love the process. Discovering tones, trying new pedals, rearranging my pedalboard...I've had a pedal board I thought was perfect before, only to end up with an entirely different pedalboard a year later. Cause I love trying new effects, changing how and what I play. For me, that's part of why I love effects. I buy effects based on needs, sounds, look, curiosity. 90% of the songs I write and record are acoustic...but over 50% of my guitar playing is on electric with pedals.

Anyway, that was totally tl;dr, but I'm passionate about (in love with? ) guitar effects!

[oinkbanana]

you guys are using guitars?

[Gunner Recall]

you guys are using guitars?

I mostly play harmonica

[Bellyheart]

I don't seek these tones in effort to have people recognize them. I seek the tone I want in order to get my ideas across and to use the tone in my own way. I don't invest in these boxes in effort to have people recognize I have these boxes. This is my own personal conquest and I'm doing it for 100% me. If someone else seems to appreciate it and like it, hells yes!

As far as I'm concerned, I'm just dorking out over all these things and it's my job to let people know why I chose a DF over a Bad Monkey. Can't expect the guys from ATTACK ATTACK to understand it through words...through sound waves though!

Also, I can definitely hear the difference of a Les Paul or Strat through a Devi and just about all pedals, with the exception of perhaps a ring mod, only because I've not focused on that much.

[devnulljp]

"we are truly the scene that celebrates itself."

...as is every other thing with a name. Really, when was the last time you walked across a bridge and admired the specific engineering techniques used to build it? A civil engineer might. The majority of people in the Louvre see a famous picture of a smiling lady that they recognise from the pyjamas they bought Auntie Flo last year from Walmart. A subpopulation are artists and see slightly more...I look at an equation and see indecipherable Greek letters and symbols, but I've heard mathematicians and physicists describing them as beautiful.
Most of us don't care how most things around us work, but we recognise when they don't. Same with music.

[htsamurai]

Tom, you dumbass, I use that phrase because it's how shoegaze was described and the similarities between that scene and our forum.
Dumbass, ofcourse there's no prevalent scene in ilf...dumbass

[FuzzHugger]

Tom, you dumbass, I use that phrase because it's how shoegaze was described and the similarities between that scene and our forum.
Dumbass, ofcourse there's no prevalent scene in ilf...dumbass

You're a dumbass for making this thread to begin with.