JHS Muffuletta

[Chankgeez]

Yeah, I'm not necessarily hating on SMD. There's certainly a place for that. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever buy a SMD. (I've got a Fairfield Accountant which I love and it's tiny little bugger.) I'm just less likely to purchase a SMD pedal if there's something else available that does the same thing and isn't SMD.

It depends on what the builder is hoping to accomplish using SMD. If size is an issue, SMD certainly allows for more circuitry in less space. I'm also not saying I can necessarily hear a difference between SMD and non-SMD, but I don't always object to SMD in regards to how a pedal sounds. It's a potential servicability issue. Same thing goes for goop.

[rustywire]

...Plus I challenge anyone to a/b a circuit and tell me you can actually hear that much of a difference between smd and through hole.

It aint about that. It's the (lack of) practicality of SMD for simple audio circuits and how they complicate servicing, modification, resurrection etc.
I have nothing against SMD technology itself; without it we wouldn't have modern computing and microchips.

[Chankgeez]

[rustywire]

[Jwar]

SMD is much simpler to fix than through hole. Let's say you have a bad component. Well ok then you replace the whole board. Big deal? It's such a lower cost that you can do that so, servicing is a non issue. I mean, are they more reliable? Who knows. Only time will tell.

Also, I think the whole if a pedal builder uses SMD I'd rather find something non smd is silly. Why does anyone even look at what the circuit has in it other than OCD reasons? I hardly ever open my pedals. I only do it to appease others. I could care less if it's got unicorn piss in it. As long as it sounds good. Goop the shit out of it, I don't care. I'm not buying it to look at the guts. I guess I understand the tidiness thing but at the same time, I think people get overly obsessed with this specifically on this site. Which is funny because half the pedals people love on here aren't very well made.

[Chankgeez]

SMD is much simpler to fix than through hole. Let's say you have a bad component. Well ok then you replace the whole board. Big deal? It's such a lower cost that you can do that so, servicing is a non issue. I mean, are they more reliable? Who knows. Only time will tell.

Dude, that's Klon thinkin'.

Also, I think the whole if a pedal builder uses SMD I'd rather find something non smd is silly. Why does anyone even look at what the circuit has in it other than OCD reasons? I hardly ever open my pedals. I only do it to appease others. I could care less if it's got unicorn piss in it. As long as it sounds good. Goop the shit out of it, I don't care. I'm not buying it to look at the guts. I guess I understand the tidiness thing but at the same time, I think people get overly obsessed with this specifically on this site. Which is funny because half the pedals people love on here aren't very well made.

Just personal preference. Not everybody cares about SMD vs. non-SMD. Some people will buy whatever.

What happens if you a like an SMD pedal and it breaks and the company is no longer in business? Who's gonna fix it? Where you gonna find a replacement board?

I suppose my perspective comes from first liking vintage pedals, but I am concerned with longevity.

[Jwar]

Better take care of yo shit then!!!!

Also I've heard of other non SMD pedals breaking and no one could fix them because of how complicated or bad the designs were. LOL. It's a concern for all pedals IMO.

See I HATE vintage pedals. That's probably why I think like I do.

Can we get back to hating JHS now though? Like seriously. lol

[rustywire]

SMD is much simpler to fix than through hole. Let's say you have a bad component. Well ok then you replace the whole board. Big deal? It's such a lower cost that you can do that so, servicing is a non issue. I mean, are they more reliable? Who knows. Only time will tell.

Also, I think the whole if a pedal builder uses SMD I'd rather find something non smd is silly. Why does anyone even look at what the circuit has in it other than OCD reasons? I hardly ever open my pedals. I only do it to appease others. I could care less if it's got unicorn piss in it. As long as it sounds good. Goop the shit out of it, I don't care. I'm not buying it to look at the guts. I guess I understand the tidiness thing but at the same time, I think people get overly obsessed with this specifically on this site. Which is funny because half the pedals people love on here aren't very well made.

Declaring smd is *simpler to fix than through-hole* is puzzling. I suppose it can be an accurate statement...if making a few assumptions here.

-You have an extra pcb on-hand
-The oem mfr will still be in business and there will be available stock of the entire board, footswitch assembly or other smd parts etc.
-I'm so callously wasteful as to treat entire pcbs as disposable because a single component fails.
-I'm OK with gatekeeper/proprietary *solutions* to problems invented by marketing departments.

Gibson put pcbs into their guitars...so users could rip them out and go back to simple, universally available shiz that can be obtained through competition.

No thanks.


Edit: heh (again) Chank

[Chankgeez]

Also, let the people buy what they want. That's the beauty in this consumer driven world, everyone has different tastes in their consumption.

[lordgalvar]

Honestly, I was a little pissed that my Moog Ring Mod was SMD when it broke. The size, price, etc said I should get something repairable and easily messed with. I just don't know how they made that pedal so freaking complicated with so many parts that it needed SMD. It ain't that complicated of a thing. I get why SMD is used sometimes, but I feel like some things need the ability to be fixed in a more typical environment. At least have socketed ic's and stuff where things have a tendency to go bad (and I have had a few over the years). Pedals get moved, traveled, used in too many different places for their design to not be somewhat rugged and stable.

As for the "I'll just replace the board, instead of the part" mentality, it may be cheaper in labor for a company, but I feel that the impact in other places (globalization, waste, environmental) outweighs the benefit of price to me. Something that is repairable in different states and gives somebody a job (instead of beng replaced by a machine) will always win out. Not to say I don't have SMD pedals of mass-machine built stuff in my pedal storage (and you can never truely get away from it unless people start making components by hand on their own), I would always prefer to support the people that try to keep stuff handmade. If they can do it with SMD, cool, but if not that is cool too.

As for the JHS, another big muff clone...eh. MUX switching and all that stuff, why did it take so long (I guess it is generally unneeded, but I have been messing with relays and mux since I started to interface mechanical and analog stuff together). I think we will see more of this stuff with the arduinos and stuff getting more prominent.

Oh, at jwar is right about JHS from what I can tell. Not interested in that stuff. (the Christian business model has frustrated me to no end coming from a town where people go to church to get money and put that damn fish on their work truck so that people can "trust" them. such a bullshit gimmick...Religion is fine, just don't use it for profit)

tl;dr: don't care about SMD, just prefer well made stuff and for the totality of the design to make sense instead of margin

[Pete]

Didn't Devi accuse JHS of stealing the Hyperion circuit? Is that primarily why JHS is disliked on this forum? There must be more to the story.

Are you serious?

I'll tell you why people don't like JHS.

#1 Dude has stolen not only her design (which is fucked but she's a dick and it still doesn't justify it) but also others.
#2 Go God Go. I'm Catholic and I'll say this. If you're associated with the largest cult probably in the fucking nation, even if you claim not to be, I'm sorry but your company sucks. If it weren't for all those mindless IHOP morons in Grandview, I doubt JHS would even be on the map. They lie their asses off as much as they want, but I know those motherfuckers are working with them.
#3 Mediocrity. Every single circuit they produce is a clone of something else. So literally there seems to be nothing original. In fact, most times they aren't even a twist on circuits, just straight copies.
#4 The look is boring and crappy. Yes this is important. Why have all those fancy boxes if you're just going to slap printer ink on them?
#5 Homie has the personality of a shoe. I met him in person and he could have given a shit less about talking to me. I'm a potential customer, but won't buy now because of how non personable he was. It was literally like talking to a fucking wall. You could at least pretend to care like all the other builders did.

Ok, sorry. I was serious-I didn't know what the reasons were and I was curious. Thanks for your answer.

[Chankgeez]

Honestly, I was a little pissed that my Moog Ring Mod was SMD when it broke. The size, price, etc said I should get something repairable and easily messed with. I just don't know how they made that pedal so freaking complicated with so many parts that it needed SMD. It ain't that complicated of a thing. I get why SMD is used sometimes, but I feel like some things need the ability to be fixed in a more typical environment. At least have socketed ic's and stuff where things have a tendency to go bad (and I have had a few over the years). Pedals get moved, traveled, used in too many different places for their design to not be somewhat rugged and stable.

As for the "I'll just replace the board, instead of the part" mentality, it may be cheaper in labor for a company, but I feel that the impact in other places (globalization, waste, environmental) outweighs the benefit of price to me. Something that is repairable in different states and gives somebody a job (instead of beng replaced by a machine) will always win out. Not to say I don't have SMD pedals of mass-machine built stuff in my pedal storage (and you can never truely get away from it unless people start making components by hand on their own), I would always prefer to support the people that try to keep stuff handmade. If they can do it with SMD, cool, but if not that is cool too.


tl;dr: don't care about SMD, just prefer well made stuff and for the totality of the design to make sense instead of margin

When my Moog MF Drive died they just gave me a new pedal. Their customer service is good if perhaps a little slow moving.

Yeah, this isn't just confined to guitar effects pedals. It's a greater trend in consumer goods.

I'm a fan of "Appropriate Technology". What can I say?

[TOMKAT_BKLYN]

SMD - through hole - tagboard - it's horses for courses dudes.

The V3 Cosmichorus barely fits in a 1590BB with SMD. Soldering that by hand would take a day or two and reduce Ryan's output (and pricing) to Toneczar levels. But is the Cosmi not a boutique pedal because it has SMD boards? Is Ryan less of a wizard because he chose to work with smaller sized components?

What are you paying for with a boutique pedal?
The circuit design?
The unique sounds?
The visuals and other tangible aspects of the pedal?
The relationship with the builder?
The after sale care?

Or does one define boutique by how many processes can be done in house and how many hours it takes per pedal? If you take a pedal developed by a large corporation, and then produce a 1:1 clone, but in a basement somewhere and with fancy graphics - is that boutique?

(when I wrote this post I was working it through in my head question for question, but now that it's written out it looks less Socratic and more passive aggressive than I'd like. Please mentally remove any aggression from this post and read it through a haze of friendly inquisitiveness)

My apologies goroth. I took that a little too personally.

[lordgalvar]

It's not a customer service issue, as I am sure most are fine (I broke it myself, so not really worried about warranty or anything). Just a waste/commerce/globalization issue. I think as a world (not just us) we think it is cheaper to replace than to fix. I just think there is a larger cost of things than just the dollar amount. I also think that lowering costs via things like SMD (or something like PEX in plumbing) leads to people wanting more and getting caught up in amounts versus quality or serviceability. I remember having jsut a big muff, a ring mod, and an MT-2 and being perfectly happy, but things have dropped in price since then (relative to their 2000 prices) to where the consumers buy at the lower prices and forcing the companies to move to cost cutting solutions in a silly consumerist cycle. It's happening everywhere and in every sector. It is just kind of silly to think about.

But if SMD is used more as a means to an end (like in the cosmic chorus case) then cool. Just replacing people for machine based solutions sucks.

And why do we need a ton of mediocre big muffs in a box anyway? We can all get a big muff, there is a ton of clones out there (and really, some of the vintage ones aren't that expensive if that is what you really want...and they hold value)...I am much more interested in somebody cloning something with their take (i.e. changes) if they are going to clone. It's the freaking internet age, I can find just about damn there anything...and a ton of companies already mass manufacture multi fx boxes with more features...I just don't know what the point of this is (I guess to find out what muff you like and then to flip it?)

[Uncle Grandfather]

I guess it's pretty cool having all of those big muff tonal options available in one box, the price seems pretty fair to me for what you're getting. I'm just not that interested in it, regardless of who makes it. I don't have any qualms with JHS and am going to buy one of there colour box pedals when I find one for a good price....been looking for a Long time