ilovefuzz.com

Hi all!

This thread follows on from Disarm D'arcy's Thinking playing in a band again after half a decade of not and other fine threads. (AKA I did some searching and reading old posts.) This is more of a stream-of-consciousness than a single question, but maybe this means we won't be off-topic because all topics are fair play

First up: I was reading a book and the basic idea was that art worth creating is worth sharing. This made me think a lot about why I play guitar and what kind of art I'm looking to make with it. There were also some bits about collaboration, and how playing with others can help to develop your skills and push you to learn in ways that you might not on your own. I feel kind of compelled to start trying to play with others and to play that music out in the world (I've never performed, unless you count middle/high school band... )

Right now, I just play at home, and I don't even really try to record it or put a drum or bass track on. It's either just the metronome (for practice, etc) or my looper pedal that I'm layering on. I began to think that maybe I needed the experience of playing regularly with a drummer or bassist (which I've never done) and maybe even, gasp, learn guitar well enough to play out.

I don't even know where to begin finding other musicians, though. I started taking lessons at the music conservatory in my neighborhood, but it turns out most of the students there are an average age of 12. I'm not skilled enough yet that I've really caught the attention of the teachers or anything to be invited to any sort of jam session. The kind of music taught there is jazz and classical -- and I'm definitely down for jazz, but not up to just rolling down to the local jazz club and joining in an open jam night. That said, I don't even know where jam sessions happen here, where I live. There's some events on a local calendar but it sounds like blooze lawyers and classic rock jam sessions? It's impossible to tell from the descriptions. I imagine that it is all "whatever is simple enough and sounds pleasing enough that the bar patrons don't all leave" which in itself, might be interesting to see/play. But I haven't had a drink for a long time, so bars are mostly out for me as a hangout, anyways.

So where would you find musicians? Oh, I should add: I moved here about 2 years ago but never really found friends, so I don't have the buddies network or decades of relationships to draw on. Going to guitar stores has been kind of meh, I usually want to high tail it out of there as soon as I can. I suspect that I have similar issues making new friends that Disarm D'arcy mentioned in his original thread, and you couple responsibilities and the fact that I don't go out drinking like most people in the 20-30 range here, and I don't have a lot of interaction with folks.

Has anyone had success in just jamming? How about in finding strangers to form a band with?

One article I read about starting a band said to prepare to become the bassist in a band/jam session because the bassist is the hardest to find. It also said that anyone with skill isn't going to stick with your crappy band I had half a mind to get a bass and start playing it for better understanding, better timing, etc., so I may just do that. Also tempted to, eventually, get a small drum kit in the basement. But I don't want to end up just playing all three alone and recording that.. I will probably progress (I know I would, if I picked up all three) on my own but I wouldn't be pushing myself in quite the same way as a social situation.

Another thing I read said that you should really list your interests and influences for the music you want to make, in an ad. I don't quite know what I'd want to list there, I don't have a concrete vision. I had imagined that my interests and the other person's interests (or the other people.. if I can find more than one person..) would gel, and we'd discuss influences and discuss the sound, tone, theme, whatever, of the band. Not even sure if it is specific enough, but I will occasionally have some flash of inspiration like "Neil Young but if he was in a doom/sludge band" but I don't actually know that I can just take that idea and make it real. Maybe I'd be better off listing precise, but wide-ranging influences? Like if I said: "Space rock (Hawkwind), doom/sludge, Americana/roots music by way of Spaghetti western soundtracks" and see which (if any) people bite on? (I'd throw jazz in there but I don't feel like they're compatible in a way that most people that associate themselves with jazz playing would see/be interested in, lol.)

I think the other thing worth mentioning is: I have a stable, good job at this point. I'm got the mortgage and family responsibilities thing going on. I'm only going to realistically devote 2 hours per week to rehearsals. I don't have time for immature people, people who show up unprepared, etc., but I also don't want to make this seem like something I'm serious about or expect to turn into a career or go on tour with (which I probably couldn't with my job, currently.) How do I indicate that in trying to find other musicians? How do I weed out the bad apples?

Lastly, where would you look? What else didn't I discuss that you'd put in an ad / posting to gather interest? So many more questions.. how would you audition someone? What would you do to get started? Should I be looking to join an existing group instead, and just let their music choices be the constraints that I work in? But I'll stop now and see what people have to say

Basically just transcribe what you wrote above into an ad as it does make perfect sense.
Sometimes the best way is to just say the things plainly. At least reading it I think I get a good understanding of what you're after.

I think you need to widen your scope and lower your expectations, especially because you have little to offer yourself.

There's nothing wrong with jamming with classic rockers, especially when there are few, if any, other options. The skills you gain from playing music with others are transferable to any genre. Maybe after jamming with them for a little you can get some of them to jam with you on something more in line with your interests.

This all being said, I would never respond to an ad someone put up looking for people to jam, but maybe there are others like yourself who would ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Its easy to weed out bad apples; talk to people, be honest and upfront, if you dont like them through conversation, youre not going to like spending 2 hours a week with them playing music.

Of all the things you've listed, joining an existing group would by far be the best and easiest way.

Muff_Diver wrote: you have little to offer yourself..

why ??
what makes you say that?
just curious as it's not what popped into my mind while reading the post

drolo wrote:

Muff_Diver wrote: you have little to offer yourself..

why ??
what makes you say that?
just curious as it's not what popped into my mind while reading the post

Never *edit:regularly* played with drummer and bassist before, never performed.

The only way to get good playing with people is to do it. Playing alone might give you riffs,ideas, and such, but it can never teach you how to follow, encourage, or play with a cohesive group dynamic.

Fair enough. A point that I decided to improve myself on.

I said jamming mostly to mean I'd join some existing jam session at a bar or something. If I started something myself with some shared vision with others, I'd call it more of a band?

I also would add in that I'm kind of limiting in my description (I'm not one to look for touring/gigs necessarily. Probably would prefer doing the record-and-put-it-on-bandcamp thing just knowing my responsibilities and time constraints.)

That said, one thing I didn't ask about was practice space. One benefit of being responsible and owning my own house. Neighbors know I play music but as mentioned, I haven't thrown drums into the mix at home yet. But having a practice space with my gear and no major worries about people stealing my stuff, seems to handle a good chunk of people's concerns about jamming/starting a band.

I guess I always have that romantic vision of 2 guys running into each other at the grocery store, wearing ilf t-shirts, falling in musical love, jamming together and creating awesome noise for the rest of their lives

kind of like this but they would have gone for it :

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgoAPX4SXFc[/youtube]

What those guys said kinda.

Definitely open your net a little bit, I find playing with people valuable even if it's not necessarily my kind of music on an ideal world.

Definite yes to putting something similar to what you just said in an ad.

I found my current band though the internet and it did take some waiting and meeting with people who were too serious (I've got a decent job too and only looking for fun unless something insane happens) but eventually I found a nice group who want to play music close enough to what I like and are open to my influences.

As for jazz jam sessions I have embarrassed myself a bit a couple of times at jams and it taught me quite a lot and I've directed my practice since. Not fun experiences but since then I've had a couple of really good ones at bar jam sessions.


Long story short persevere!

drolo wrote:kind of like this but they would have gone for it :

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgoAPX4SXFc[/youtube]

This is the dream, exactly

---

I had a thought, that seems relevant to this thread. There's been a push in the past in my industry/career to try an apprenticeship model; and while I was never an apprentice, I had a similar first job that I had to learn on my feet. Later I supported the idea that we could apprentice people rather than have them go through college, and I spoke about this at some conferences. (College is cool, too. But a bachelors of science doesn't always prepare you for business and working with clients. Anyways, small tangent.)

There was a book called Apprenticeship Patterns that I really enjoyed, that laid out some practices for an apprenticeship program. One of the things that I distinctly remember from that book is:

We're all on the same journey, but we may take different routes or be at different progress along the way.

I guess I think about playing music in the same way. I'll always be learning. I may not be as far along the path as someone who has played continuously in a band for 20 years.

I can make progress on that journey. I might take some different routes and go and spend time off in jazz land. It's all the same journey.

Point is, there's no reason for me to get discouraged and give up just because I haven't done this in the past. So I'll start building towards it now.

I agree, also who knows what can happen with all that pent up creativity once it gets to burst out in a collaborative context :-)
There are just so many paths indeed.

mathias wrote: Point is, there's no reason for me to get discouraged and give up just because I haven't done this in the past. So I'll start building towards it now.

I'm hoping to gain some knowledge here by continuing the thread:

Does anyone have any advice for getting together to play/jam with strangers? (Strangers as in, people you haven't jammed with before.)

I've started a lot of bands with friends, and a few with strangers. The most accomplished and longest-lasting of those bands actually came from posting a craigslist ad where I basically just listed a few bands I liked and said I was looking for a guitarist. Conversely, I've had many bands formed with friends that fell apart quickly.

I don't think you need to get too fancy or overthink this. In my experience, you will know in the first five minutes of playing with someone whether there's any chemistry. Just list five bands you like on a flyer or post and be prepared to be judicious once you get enquiries. Don't worry about mentioning your level of experience. Musical chemistry can be honed, but needs to be built on a sturdy foundation. Your level of experience won't matter if you've already connected with someone on a musical level, but could be a turn-off for them if you haven't.

Finally, your mileage may vary, but I've never found band practices to be productive unless they involve playing for at least three hours per week. Three hours is the minimum necessary to run through songs you know to keep them fresh and still make any sort of memorable progress on new material. I don't know why, but it has been true for every band I've ever been in. My current band frequently practices for an hour and a half to two hours and/or takes several weeks off between practices, and it has taken us two years to write not quite four songs.

^ I am also a fan of the 3 hr practice, if you have an established line up and a ready to get down to business. I like to take some breaks with everyone and talk with each other. Run through the tunes 1st, replay anything shakey, work on stuff from last week, new riffs from anyone who has any, run through the songs again, pack up and hang out for a bit. Done.


Put an add on Craigslist with your skill level, intentions, interests, inspiration, and expectations. If you post something looking for other novices/hobbyists/weekend warriors, that might help a bit. A phone conversation is usually nice if you can't get a good feel from email. Meet up and jam. That's really all there is to it.
I'm sure your neighbors will be mildly annoyed by drums. But when you get a bass player with a decent set up... they'll hate that.

Not sure where you live. I'm in Austin so it's pretty easy here. I could probably be in a band by the end of the day if I really wanted to...

dozicusmaximus wrote: I'm in Austin so it's pretty easy here. I could probably be in a band by the end of the day if I really wanted to...

ugh you should see the raleigh craigslist. It's awful. "Need a hit song?" "PRAISE AND WORSHIP BAND NEEDS MEMBERS FOR LOCAL CHURCH" "CREED TRIBUTE BAND NEEDS BASS PLAYER, DRUMMER, GUITARIST"