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Don't think about pedals for a moment...

I have brainstormed in my mind two things: AMP.
Im taking up building amps, for myself at least, and I can see possibly offering them as a Mellowtone product in the future. Im either specifically interested in offering a small gigging head (15w 6v6) or a small single ended 6v6 combo, which I would likely base directly off of the Silvertone 1481 (best vintage small tube amp ever). Im really into the the latter idea at the moment but my mind is fickle. Jensen speaker, JJ tubes, probably a solid state rectifier because as I read small single ended amps dont experience tube rectifier sag liek a pushpull design does, Edcor transformers (they look pretty sexy, are more affordable and US made), all in a small package.

Other idea: faux tape echo box. And by that I mean, pedals are rad, but I think its really sexy having a head type cabinet on top of your amp making some echo with an external footswitch. But I wouldnt nescessarily try and make it sound like a Space Echo (because their is plenty of other people taking care of that), rather just put a nice reverb and delay effect in a compact head. I could use a normal one button (old fender dome style) footswitch or I could build my own which could have an LED.
Theres pros and cons. Of course this could all be built as a pedal, but they arent as sexy as a sweet vintage looking tape echo head which is what I would want to emulate.
The con of a fender switch is no LED, the pro is they are common and easy to replace with just abotu any footswitch. Or I could make a special footswitch with an LED that could connect by a TRS or XLR cable. the LED would be nice, the enclosure would be more generic and if lost you couldnt jsut pick up any old replacement at a music shop. you would have the option of using any trs cord, or xlr cord depending though. trs might be bad because if you accident used a TS (mono) cable it would get messed up... and xlr is more common on stages anyways so backups are more plentiful.
ramble ramble ramble... but they (amp and echo unit) wouold like rad n matching tolex

im not sure the pricepoints I could hit with these though...... probably $399-799 for the amp (really dependent on labor time involved) and the echo/reverb unit could come out around $199-299.... which might be a bit much for such a device.


ramble ramble ramble

Both sound awesome to me. You could just put extra LEDs on the fake-tape echo to make it look like Christmas or something.

I like both ideas. I feel like an XLR cable might be pretty cumbersome to run to a board or something, though. I would think the fender switch would work just fine and maybe just put an LED on the box itself or something? I think it'd be pretty easy to tell if it was on anyway, though.

I'm assuming you're thinking an analog delay/reverb? If so, expression controls for some of the parameters would be so awesome.

The amp also sounds awesome. I would love a really simple 5 watt amp that had a good transformer and was made of good quality parts that didn't cost like 2000 bucks.

The Echo in a head sounds F-ing Sweet. I would sell half my record collection just to Get one. Please people chime in. This would be one sweet pedal. I hope you do it and if you ever think of a small run because of a lack of interest please consider me there. But I'm sure they would sell People are starting to learn the meaning of great pedals not built for or by robots. In truth it would take a while to raise the cash but I am in for most likely two.

Hmm an echo would be very nice,
Most (ok all) of the tape echos are very complicated, if you can get that sound without the electro mechanical hassles it would be great.

MM

to be honest, if I did the headbox echo unit itd be all digital. Maybe its lame, but id end up using the same thing everyone else uses: PT2399 delay and a Belton reverb brick. But id put my own toss on it, besides the aesthetics of a headbox arrangement, I'd like to the make the delay portion have an unfiltered setting. Most everyone I know of adds filtering for an analog sound on thier pt2399 delays... which is rad too, but it actually sounds super rad without that, the long delay trails get more trebly and lofi, like chirping cricket.
and as far as the reverb brick, everyone is doing just the stock datasheet schematic.... which is cool because they are good like that, but I'd like to offer a voicing or tone control which is feasible.
But maybe its a dumb cheasy idea. Theres plenty of this stuff out there already so no need to flood the market!]

The amp is somehting I am excited about, I feel pretty positive about it, but I dont know when because the parts costs of amps is 10x that of a peda so its quite an investment,.
For those of you who havent played one though, the Silvertone 1481 is an awesome 6v6 amp. WIth normal single coils its basically clean even dimed, jsut way more full bodied than a champ. My plan is to build just that, although there are certain thingss that may make it sound different than the original (for better or for worse). Based on commonly available chassis sizes (custom chassies are too pricy IMO), the cabinet would end up being smaller. The construction would be out of real wood though, old silvertone amps were made out of basically a cardboard like material (think fast food cup holders but thicker and stiffer) with cheap 1/4" masonite baffles. Pretty weaksauce contruction but I bet it has an effect on the sound. Additionally, I plan to use a solid state rectifier for many reasons, I dont know how much difference this will make tonally until I build one and can compare to an original. Of course differences in speaker manufacture and transformers will also contribute to differences, but I think a Jensen (I like the mod series, affordable and a nice sound, although maybe I would try Weber?) and the Edcor output transformer will help rather than hinder.
Thats my thoughts

The new pedal line is coming along though so thats a plus

wow, love these ideas

I haven't tried the Edcor transformers yet.
So not sure how they will sound.
Ted Weber's speakers are fantastic.
His signature series would fit the bill and keep the price within your range.

The old Dano built Silvertones cabinets kind of deadened their sound, the cabinets absorbed moisture and kind of separated in places. He was a fan of Masonite.
His stuff was definitely made from the lowest production cost stand point.

Go with white pine for the cabinet and birch ply for the baffle that will keep the nice resonance.

I do like the 1481 but prefer the sound of the old Valco built amps myself.
Oahu, Supro, very early Silvertone, Airlines, Harmony, National etc etc.

Any way it is a simple circuit, so experimenting with different values of caps and resisters makes dramatic differences.

A ss rectifier will tighten up things a bit, never tried it on a single ended cathode biased amp.

MM

I would definitely put some saved cash towards an awesome mellowtone amp. With how the pedals turn out and all the other projects, I know it would be awesome.

Wow, this does sound pretty exciting! I have to be honest and say neither appeal to me personally (I don't need another amp and I'm not a big delay/verb user) but that said, I can see these selling.

Other things to consider...... if you are planning on selling the amps around the world most of us outside of America use 220/240volts, I don't know if you could build these with a selectable mains input? if you could then it would just be as simple as setting the correct voltage and plugging in a IEC mains cable with the correct plug on..... otherwise using external stepdown transformers and stuff is a right pain and that might put me off a bit if I was thinking of buying one.

So discussion I can do that.

Having never played that particular Silvertone I'll nod dumbly to that, although what you say (full bodied and clean) it all sounds pretty good. I'd agree combos are probably the best idea if you're looking at about 15 watts because it'd be small enough for gigs where the convenience factor of not carting around seperate head and cabs would come into consideration. Of course that's personal preference and I'm lazy but nothing in this business isn't.

As for the delay thing I'd say Fender footswitch is probably easiest and easisest is better right? If you can't tell whether it's on or not you probably shouldn't have paid $199-299 for it. It does sound like it could be fun,it would be good to have a few more options than most pedals if you're going for the whole big box on top of an amp thing.

But yeah all sound like cool ideas man

Very cool ideas...
It'd be amazing to see Mellowtone amp!!! That I'd have to have. :D

Mel x wrote:Wow, this does sound pretty exciting! I have to be honest and say neither appeal to me personally (I don't need another amp and I'm not a big delay/verb user) but that said, I can see these selling.

Other things to consider...... if you are planning on selling the amps around the world most of us outside of America use 220/240volts, I don't know if you could build these with a selectable mains input? if you could then it would just be as simple as setting the correct voltage and plugging in a IEC mains cable with the correct plug on..... otherwise using external stepdown transformers and stuff is a right pain and that might put me off a bit if I was thinking of buying one.

good point. the particular edcor power transformer i am looking into using is available in a 120/240 primary winding, for only a couple dollars more, so I could definitely do that, I was planning on using an IEC socket anyhow as well.

metalmariachi wrote:I haven't tried the Edcor transformers yet.
So not sure how they will sound.
Ted Weber's speakers are fantastic.
His signature series would fit the bill and keep the price within your range.

The old Dano built Silvertones cabinets kind of deadened their sound, the cabinets absorbed moisture and kind of separated in places. He was a fan of Masonite.
His stuff was definitely made from the lowest production cost stand point.

Go with white pine for the cabinet and birch ply for the baffle that will keep the nice resonance.

I do like the 1481 but prefer the sound of the old Valco built amps myself.
Oahu, Supro, very early Silvertone, Airlines, Harmony, National etc etc.

Any way it is a simple circuit, so experimenting with different values of caps and resisters makes dramatic differences.

A ss rectifier will tighten up things a bit, never tried it on a single ended cathode biased amp.

MM

ive heard alot of good things about the edcor transformers. they are cheaper, largely i think because they mostly only come with one primary and one secondary winding, whereas hammonds have multiple primary and seconday windings. but in this situation I plan on only using one of each so its as simple as choosing the right model. additionally, even the most basic models are supposed to have a wider frequency response than the hammonds, and comparatively higher wattage output for less money which will increase some head room.

A Mellowtone 15w tube tamp = yes