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I'm worked myself into a mind pickle.

Seems like many of us are being inspired by the Switching Primary Instruments Thread. I'm definitely in that arena. I think guitar will stay my primary, but I really want to widen into keys for variety and to ease up on my left wrist which has ongoing issues that are worse than normal these days. I want to get either a keyboard or a synth, and somehow I don't even know if there is a difference.

I want to be able to play cute little melodies (I'm looking at Brian and Stripes from Cymbals Eat Guitars and Florist, respectively). Every time I look around the internet I seem to be looking at either Synths (like a microbrute, but polyphony is a must), Volca stuff (but these seem hard to play, idk why exactly), midi controllers (but I really don't want to rely on a laptop or whatever), or things that cost like $2000+

I'm very tempted by the Roland Boutique Series JP-08 with the keyboard dock and the korg minilogue, but I'm not even sure if these are what I'm after. I don't have dreams of becoming a concert pianist, so I don't need excellent faux piano stuff. I just want to make the cute prettiness.

Sorry for the amateur question. Any advice or pointers towards products is appreciated!

Links in case anyone needs info on the two main candidates I know of:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JP08
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Minilogue

Ok, so... a synth can have a keyboard, but it might not. Also there are plenty of keyboards that aren't synths. But I get what you mean.

If you're looking to do melodic stuff, I think you'll probably want the same sort of things I've been looking for lately—I'm a guitarist and have been looking heavily into the synth world as well. You'll most likely want a synth with keys.

I'll let others who are more experienced chime in, but I will say one thing—I'd HIGHLY recommend picking up a Novation Bass Station II. It's a great analog mono synth that can do a LOT, especially considering its price point. They've currently dropped to $399, and I picked up mine at GC open box for $359. I think a synth like that would be a great place to get started—you really won't regret it.

Then of course you've got polys, which is a whole other ball of wax. I've got a Juno 60 I really like, and have periodically eyed the DSI Mopho x4, even though it's got one of the most cringeworthy names ever. Mopho. Ugh. Sounds like something a SRV dad guitarist would say.

popvulture wrote:Ok, so... a synth can have a keyboard, but it might not. Also there are plenty of keyboards that aren't synths. But I get what you mean.

If you're looking to do melodic stuff, I think you'll probably want the same sort of things I've been looking for lately—I'm a guitarist and have been looking heavily into the synth world as well. You'll most likely want a synth with keys.

I'll let others who are more experienced chime in, but I will say one thing—I'd HIGHLY recommend picking up a Novation Bass Station II. It's a great analog mono synth that can do a LOT, especially considering its price point. They've currently dropped to $399, and I picked up mine at GC open box for $359. I think a synth like that would be a great place to get started—you really won't regret it.

Then of course you've got polys, which is a whole other ball of wax. I've got a Juno 60 I really like, and have periodically eyed the DSI Mopho x4, even though it's got one of the most cringeworthy names ever. Mopho. Ugh. Sounds like something a SRV dad guitarist would say.

Lol at the mophos.

Novation bass station looks awesome. I bet poly is less important than I have it built up in my mind, especially with an arpeggiator. and Microkorg is another good looking option. At some point this will likely come down to just picking one from somewhere with a nice return policy in case I really don't dig it.

vidret wrote:imo the bad ass thing about a lot of synths isn't only the sounds but for me as a guitar player to play a synth with keys are the dense chords.
i really enjoy it anyways, and wouldn't trade a digital poly for an analog mono (at this point anyways).

That's exactly my reasoning for saying poly in the OP. One of my favorite things about guitar is interesting chords, so I assume that will carry over to keys. I assume that keys are like effect pedals in that the difference between digital and analog is becoming much smaller in actual sound quality.

Agreed. I have a feeling you'd regret getting a monosynth. I can't hang with monos at all as I also love the layers of sound. Are you trying to stay small? How are you on menu-diving?

I love my Microkorg (and if you want full-size with more knobs you can grab a MS2000) and in a similar vein I also hear lots of good things about the Ultranova. The boutiques all look good depending on which timbres you're inclined towards. Maybe you could/should play with some VSTs for awhile to see what you like and learn the basics of subtractive synthesis?

PeteeBee wrote:I assume that keys are like effect pedals in that the difference between digital and analog is becoming much smaller in actual sound quality.

It's less about "sound quality" than the "quality of sound." I love digital synths.

spacelordmother wrote:Agreed. I have a feeling you'd regret getting a monosynth. I can't hang with monos at all as I also love the layers of sound. Are you trying to stay small? How are you on menu-diving?

I'm not opposed to a little menu diving, but deep diving or having to remember too many steps is a turn off to me. I'd rather stay small, mostly because my living situation is just one room while I go back to school.

I'll fiddle with VST's to try to learn what features I actually care about and all that. First I'll google VST's, then I will spend some time with them

PeteeBee wrote:

spacelordmother wrote:Agreed. I have a feeling you'd regret getting a monosynth. I can't hang with monos at all as I also love the layers of sound. Are you trying to stay small? How are you on menu-diving?

I'm not opposed to a little menu diving, but deep diving or having to remember too many steps is a turn off to me. I'd rather stay small, mostly because my living situation is just one room while I go back to school.

I'll fiddle with VST's to try to learn what features I actually care about and all that. First I'll google VST's, then I will spend some time with them

VSTs are software synths and effects. if you're on a mac then I believe you are looking for AUs. They will need some sort of host for you to use them -- usually any DAW. If you're on windows then I have a bunch that I can recommend, but if you're on a mac then some other kind soul will have to help.

All Mac all day.

Another option is I'm sure just head down to Oakland and go to guitar center to try junk out. See what feels right and is somewhat intuitive.

A midi controller and Omnisphere is going to take you much farther for $500 than the ones you linked. Please don't limit yourself by treating laptops as a musical albatross.

Ableton + synth1 is keeping me really happy, sounds can be heard here
https://parliamentlite.bandcamp.com

That being said I messed around with a Minologue today and was floored by how fun it was to play. The tiny keys are a bummer but it makes sounds real good. I have a Microkorg and I love it but you have to pay some attention tweak the knobs, it's really easy to lose track of things. That being said it's fun and pretty cheap used!

I wouldn't demonized laptops so much, except that my wife and I share our laptop, so sometimes it is unavailable for various reasons.

Yeah, ever since I brought my laptop back to life my GF is always wanting to use it. My next big gear purchase will definitely be a Mac Book.

A few questions that could help determine what could be a good fit for you (because there are lots of great options these days) :

- What's your budget
- What kind of sounds do you want to make (any description can help)
- Do you need lots of polyphony or are you ok with 3-4 notes ?
- Do you want full size keys or are smaller ones ok (smaller keys can still have great action btw)

Most synths available are substractive synths, i.e. sound is generated by oscillators which are then filtered and fed through an amplifier usually controlled by an envelope, to which you add quite a bit of modulation all over the place. You can do lots of things with a powerful enough substractive synth, and the result is usually intuitive enough. FM synths can do a whole other range of sounds (there is some overlap between the two), but are typically much harder to understand.

From what you said so far I'd probably recommend the Korg Minilogue, but your answers to the previous questions might change that.
It's got a really nice interface, very wysiwyg, and sounds great. There's enough polyphony to do nice chords (though maybe not enough for big orchestral stuff ) and it's really versatile. A few years ago a synth like that could not have been found for less than $1500-2000.

Only considering things that are available new now, the Reface series could be nice if you want more electric pianos/organ sounds (Reface CS and YC). They do these things very well, but they will definitely not do other things though, so get these if that's the kind of sounds you want. If you want lots of versatility something like the Minilogue would be a better fit.

As you don't know synthesis well, whatever you get I'd recommend something with as few menus as possible, and as many parameters as possible available as hardware knobs/buttons. It will make it much easier for you to learn how to play the thing as an instrument.

oscillateur wrote:A few questions that could help determine what could be a good fit for you (because there are lots of great options these days) :

- What's your budget
- What kind of sounds do you want to make (any description can help)
- Do you need lots of polyphony or are you ok with 3-4 notes ?
- Do you want full size keys or are smaller ones ok (smaller keys can still have great action btw)

The paragraphs I chopped were super helpful and informative, just seemed easier to answer with this truncated.
-probably around $500. I have 300 chilling now, could flip stuff to likely get up to about 800 without cutting too deep into guitar stuff.
-I'd say I mostly want to make old school keyboard sounds... Rich and pretty and not necessarily faking any specific instrument. I wish I could describe it better. I honestly would love to get the tones from the last florist album. No orchestral stuff or anything, I want it to be distinctly a keyboard.
-3 or 4 is probably enough polyphony
-small keys are fine as long as they feel nice. I don't have enough practice on a full piano for that to matter.

Thanks again for all the help!

Reface CS might be perfect. Tweakable but really simple. Leaves room for the pedals I love. Fits my vibe in general. My favorite guitar is my one pickup/one knob blaster. Plus it's on sale down to 399 then I have a coupon on that...