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I know this runs contra to a lot of people in pedalland, especially here, but I am really put off by scarcity. Whenever Sonic Crayon or MASF or Seppukku comes up, my eyes glaze over. If I can't purchase something reliably and reasonably, it doesn't interest me that much. I love handmade, quirky, boutique pedals, but I have no interest in unobtanium stuff that requires a secret handshake and coded messages to get. If anything, hearing about impossible to get pedals just turns me off.

I never know about these pedals until it's too late to get em anyway,

I think I am with you on this one,

I kind-of like the idea that if my board disappeared tomorrow I could pretty much make an exact copy and in general be able to do so spending much less than retail.

PRetty much one of my reason behind selling both my PLL and my Goatkeeper. Still, I only get turned off by unobtainium when it's something that's easily done by other pedals, see klons and shit like that.

Inconuucl wrote:PRetty much one of my reason behind selling both my PLL and my Goatkeeper. Still, I only get turned off by unobtainium when it's something that's easily done by other pedals, see klons and shit like that.

I think part of it is my pseudo-populism and approach to pedals as tools. The more hands a tool is in, the more art can be made with it. If a pedal is unobtanium and unique, then it is a missed opportunity, to me.

Yeah scarcity sucks,
But I really hate when people buy a scarce pedal and then flip it at insane-o prices...
Masf, is another story though, I think culturally Japan is a bit of a weirdo in the internet culture as in they generally don't seem to care about missing out on international direct sales.

It's a seemingly difficult line to walk, especially for the dudes/dudettes doing unique stuff.

I always wonder, is it scarce because you are a dude in your basement and can make three a month? Or because you can only get xxx of whatever Mojo part you need? Or because you are creating hype?

Don't love or buy super scarce pedals in general,

The pedals as tools argument is pretty flipping solid.

Nothing is impossible to get. MASF is widely available online, so they shouldn't be on that list. The others are more scarce yes. Sometimes scarce things are the best IMO. Like Toneczar stuff. The best hand made boutique ever IMO, but you certainly pay the price for it. The nice thing about own something like that is you can always move it. Someone else wants to try it.

I think it's cooler to look at a board with stuff I don't recognize than one that I've seen a hundred times.

Depends on if it's being used in a musical fashion or as a bragging right, I think.

Everything I rely on that's unobtanium I've had cloned by one of my usual dudes.

I can have another made up with a call or email and have it in hand in a short period of time.

No interest in the whole "boutique" crazy of artificial scarcity and inflated prices. I'd happily use all Boss pedals if they did what I needed (and at one point in the 90s, my entire board was Boss because it was both replaceable and magical at the same time - the ME-6B's filters were critical to my oddball sounds, and the ME-10's routing and "MIDI everything" to an expression pedal was equally crucial).

Sometimes scarcity is based on market too. There are places where certain models and companies had more success and are more widely availiable. It just isn't boutique companies either. There are probably less Moog Super Delays than some MASF pedals out there.

And if you found a pedal at a pawn shop (or wherever) for $40 that you know you could flip for $200 on Reverb you wouldn't do that? I have. If an ILFer messages me and wants it at a deal or in a trade, sure I do that, but I'm not going to pass up the opportunity to get what I really want at the time. Yea sure, getting something new just because it is rare and holding out for people to pay 200% or more of asking price sucks, but yea, if they can get it...I mean who cares? Yea, it wont interest me at the price (and may not at any price) but there isn't anything wrong with trying I guess.

To put it another way: My dad loves cars. Traded a 2 speed powerglide for a Turbo 400, some carbs, and manifolds. Didn't need anything other than the Turbo 400...is he just supposed to regift that stuff or sell if for a profit to get something else trick for the El Camino (like a new cam)? Then he uses that cash to get a custom built intake turbo setup and computer tuning. It if breaks, this setup is the only one, not easily replaceable...should he not flip stuff to get something trick?

I used to collect and play shooting games. I bought some new for $40 years ago. They can go from $200 to $350 online. If I have to sell them, I will try to get the max I can. A lot of these a rare short run video games (like under 5k pressings for big companies or under 100 for the homebrew scene). If I had that rare tetris cart...heck yea I would sell it for 100k if I could. haha

Another reason for making profit on some flips is that selling online can be a loss sometimes. All it takes is one jerk to break it when they got it (even if you say AS IS) and they go after you to freeze the paypal account, etc...I had one dude try when I sold a sampler at a loss file all these complaints but what he really wanted was something for free...I just said hell with these people...they are out to profit too, might as well get some padding to protect myself. Selling on ILF is great and I do sell for significantly lower here...but sometimes the item doesn't fit or wont sell here. So I am not going to put myself at risk to populist (with higher priced items...it is usually a flipper/speculator that is going to just sit on it anyway so might as well get what you can). If a kid that really wants something and seems like a nice guy/girl with dreams of that, sure I cut them slack.

From that perspective, I like neat stuff that you don't see around...it's all for fun. I have DOD stuff that I use regularly that is harder to get a hold of than Lastgasp. If it breaks or something...well, I will get it fixed or go someplace else...forced exploration. haha. It's just all in good fun.

But yea, playing with gear creates lots of flips sometimes. It's all fun just to get to try different things.

I just look at it that if you like something, it shouldn't matter where it came from or who made it. It is just what you like and that is cool. And you aren't taking away my dirty doper even though there are less than 20 in the world haha.

And what D.o.S. said.

Gosh, I hope one of my ILF buds reads this.

But yea, if anybody know me, I almost always sell at a loss or below market...but I have found cheap stuff and flipped it for a small profit on reverb and ebay. I sold all my E13 stuff for a profit after I sat on it for 10 years...but those were auctions, I had no idea what the going rate for a Tri-Fuzz was (got it for 125 sold it for 250). Heck I've even given stuff away for free haha. And I do tend to stick to more common stuff (I use boss pedals just as much as other stuff). It is what it is man.

Scarcity can be cool, but, as others have said, only insofar as it gets used to do cool stuff. I've had things where the thing-ness of it superseded my ability to use it. It's fetishism, really, and that's what breeds collecting rather than creation. So I sell that stuff.

If you pursue the "tool" analogy (and I do), then consider getting some quality tools that you can use for primary color-type combinations. Hammer, drill, saw, wrench, tape measure, &c. The combination and uses (in terms of projects) for those not limited by much.

There's also the fact that, in most cases, scarcity is a gradual thing, especially with some of the smaller run pedalmakers. Older mtl.asm pedals are a good example of that, mellowtone, etc. There were a few months when you could see a GB24 or a Wolf Computer for sale every day in BST (fine maybe only 28 days out of each month), but eventually this stuff sorts its way into the hands of people who want them and boom! no more for sale. Does that make the pedal less rad? I don't think so.

Speaking of tools, I use a Douglas Hammer (formerly the Hart Woody). I like it a lot and I much prefer it to my Vaughn California Framing Hammer. Douglas makes them and only sold them through his ebay and only has a few around at a time. They cost 4x as much as the Vaughn or Estwing...but if I use it better and with more ease than the Vaughn..it works for me. Is it easy to replace? nope. Would I use something else if I had to? yes.

But if I needed a good dovetail saw, I would go vintage, fix one up, or buy a boutique one because it really matters sometimes for that...and there isn't a well made common one. But if there was, sure I would go for it.

Chisels are a whole wormhole in themselves. Other than boutique cottage tool makers in Japan and Germany, there really is not widely availiable quality chisel out now. So people go vintage or call up the dude in Japan and get a set. Sure some of the pricing is mojo and stuff...but it is a tool that hasn't been well made in a long time.

To do what you really want, it is more about what inspires you to try new things, have fun, and work with you less than what should be the way it is. Some of my boutique buying is also because I like to support local and small business and take my dollar away from big business and sweat shops as much as possible.

I think spruce_moose brought up tantulum mines in the DIY thread...I mean, it is one way to get your dollar to speak is to buy vintage and stuff and not support child labor. But this all gets into way complicated issues that are far too hard to avoid and really get into here. But if you can support someone that is working hard for their money and trying their best not to exploit other people, I am all for that.

D.o.S. wrote:There's also the fact that, in most cases, scarcity is a gradual thing, especially with some of the smaller run pedalmakers. Older mtl.asm pedals are a good example of that, mellowtone, etc. There were a few months when you could see a GB24 or a Wolf Computer for sale every day in BST (fine maybe only 28 days out of each month), but eventually this stuff sorts its way into the hands of people who want them and boom! no more for sale. Does that make the pedal less rad? I don't think so.

Yea, that is another aspect I forgot about with the market comment.

Sorry if I am an asshole or look like I am out to exploit people. I'm not...just been screwed over too many times. But if there is one thing, that you should know about me is that I have never screwed over a member here and always do my best to help them and be straight up with them (and I usually willingly take the loss...just to try new stuff and find the right home for gear).