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I was listening to a music podcast the other day and they were talking about enthusiasm (mainly with recording) but also how that tends to bring people out to shows and it got me thinking that most of the music I like is either angry or depressing but most of the shows I see are angry but I'd love to see more depressing live music. It doesn't lead me to have a bad time or get all bummed out...in fact it often elevates my mood and I don't think it's that uncommon but it can be tricky to bring people out. I'm not talking super melodramatic music with lots of gothic histrionics but more like the introspective moments during a Neurosis album or a Sunn O))) drone or some Khanate or Swans/solo-Gira intimacy. Those bands certainly draw good crowds but they've done it all pre-internet and I think that changes things. I'm looking to brainstorm or just plain listen to some of your ideas I could use for my solo project of decidedly unfun music. I get that many people want to go out and rage it up on their limited weekend free-time so my version of Debbie-downer music isn't exactly going to turn out the party but those into this sort of music can be a bit tricky to get out to a show because it's not inherently social music...it's more like heavy metal meditation music...it's a very niche market and I'm cool with that, I'll take 5 that care over 500 that are just "meh-whatever".

I think buzz has a lot to do with it, but luckily people are a lot more receptive to drone et. al that doesn't have a label (or label hype) attached to it than they were 5-10 years ago, and I want to say that as a distant observer the Bay should have a pretty willing audience.

I mean.... i think you hit the nail on the head there. Most people want to go to a show either to get laid or have a good time. I understand that one persons idea of a good time will differ from anothers but on the whole you have to give the people something other than your self loathing. Look at david lee roth. All of his music was pretty much one continuous suicide note but he still sold out the stadiums.

Also I dont think there are that many people that want to put something deeply personal on display without some kind of power display. Hence the dominance of aggressive music.

I think venue and scene have a lot of influence too. I think the actual music's mood/character can play in, but it mostly about what makes an audience enthusiastic or fits in a venue. Whitney Huston, Country and all that sang depressing songs and people would get so excited to hear really sappy sad songs by them (and that is in a mass media market place where the goal is to appeal to the widest audience...any niche genre is going to find it easier to find the right audience sometimes). Good music will always get people excited beyond the mood. Venues/promoters help a lot by knowing their target audiences and also booking in appropriate places. I could see Dan Deacon fans loving a harsh noise wall set in the right size place and scene. Booking a Jay Z style rapper at a bar doesn't fit to me (and I have seen it functionally not work)...kind of like booking Chaos U.K. to play Coachella (but goldenvoice keeps trying and it almost always fails)...

Some other shows that piss people off are when a booking company books bands to push a tour for another band that they want to push. Like shoehorning in Meat Bodies before Buzzcocks...it isn't just about fitting musically, it is about crowds and the ability to play to a crowd to a point. I saw an indie rock band suffer through most of a set once and then finally bust out "Where Eagles Dare" and all the kids went nuts for a song. A good musician/showman always plays to the audience a bit.

So what D.o.S. said is completely true. It is a lot about buzz but, I think, also about making connections and letting good promoters and venues do the work. Friends bands, trends of bands you like (like they always play Redwood Tavern in LA or something), and meeting people/being friendly goes very far. One thing about LG was that we never had a terrible show in terms of reception...but I think we kind of knew how to play to a crowd. I see a crowd getting bored with other guitar tuning? Take off my shirt and pretend to make nipple feedback or something. We had horrible, terrible shows, but we were always the most critical of ourselves..

The nice thing about doing drone is that it can fit in a lot of places and can be very interesting in a diverse list of settings.

Glad you mentioned Khanate! Never really hear much about them on here (was my introduction to "doom" or whatever...because of O.L.D.)

louderthangod wrote:.it's a very niche market and I'm cool with that, I'll take 5 that care over 500 that are just "meh-whatever".

Keep this in mind for as long as you do it and you'll be fine.

I find too many bands at the moment seem to expect that they're owed a crowd and merch sales just because they managed to write some songs and not trip over their guitar cables and shit their pants in the process. Despite all this new media crap I've found the only reliable way to still get people to come and see you is to play out as much as you can to as many different people as you can, and know that you'll be putting in months and years of playing to empty rooms, and may never really hit that chord with the general public where you start to see crowds increase.

Hell unless you're part of the cool kids club what you'll probably actually see is people doing a much shittier version of what you're doing and getting way more popular and more opportunities because of it. It sucks, it's tiring, and venues don't like bands that only bring a couple people in the door so it's hard to book shows. I'm facing the exact same situation with my current band right now and it's a very big wake up call to my ego after playing in a reasonably 'popular' couple of bands for the last few years. But it's the music I think I'm most proud of doing, with people who are absolutely on the same page in terms of what we won't compromise on to actually play a show. If we end up never really playing out and just putting our self-recorded music online, well it sucks, but I'm sick and tired of the games you have to play to be in a 'popular' band and would rather just do this for ourselves and the two or three people that may care.

I realise none of this is answering the question you asked but like...yeah. Honestly I don't think there are ways to get people to come out that are sustainable or satisfying, other than just playing out and being as honest and true to yourself and your art as you can. People pick up on that and respect the hell out of it. And you'll never find yourself looking out on two hundred barely interested people thinking "I fucking hate all of you" and decide you need to give it up. I think you've got the right attitude. Good luck.

lordgalvar wrote:Glad you mentioned Khanate!

HEY YOU GUYS REMEMBER THIS???
viewtopic.php?f=150&t=38742&hilit=khanate





Man dos was being a whiny little biiiiiiitch here.

SPACERITUAL wrote:HEY YOU GUYS REMEMBER THIS???
viewtopic.php?f=150&t=38742&hilit=khanate

WTF? doom is more about pictures of candles than any of you can ever dream about.

I never understood people who go to a show for reasons other than "I want to see the band(s)." Don't get me wrong, I'm aware that without people who go to shows to get drunk, get high, and get laid, the live music industry would likely collapse. It's just that I can't help but feel a little teensy bit of disdain for them. You know, when I'm up against the bars, screaming my heart out with my hand on my chest, and you spill your beer on me... bro. Trying to rock out here. Consider it a hangover from my brief-lived and ill-advised straightedge period.

On the side-topic of Khanate, as you can probably guess from my reposting of that awesome comic, I really love Khanate. People go on about them like they're really extreme or something...? They just sound like good doom to me. Way more song structure than any of O'Malley's other projects, even, like... verses, and shit. They're not even that heavy...? Like compared to Indian...

ANYWAY...

louderthangod wrote:I'll take 5 that care over 500 that are just "meh-whatever".

That's the best possible attitude to have. This can take a great band and keep them going through decades. All of my favourite bands feel so famous to me, because they have dedicated fanbases for whom they are the biggest band in the world. Then I talk to The Plebs™ and no one's ever heard of them. For example, there are very few casual Say Anything fans, and even fewer casual Brand New fans (Martin Shkreli notwithstanding). There are close to no casual Titus Andronicus fans. At a Say Anything show, there are very few people who are not diehards, singing along, moshing, as close to the front as they can get... and buying the merch. The people who just came in on a whim stand out like sore thumbs.

I mean... Insane Clown Posse and KISS are some of the worst bands ever, but they have their Juggalos, and their Army, and that's really all that matters...

lordgalvar wrote:I think venue and scene have a lot of influence too.

literally came to post this. Find your audience - choose the right venue ran by the right people, promo from people who care helps a lot. Word of mouth also helps a lot and if the right couple of people come to your show and see you're doing real shit that's not boring/cheesy/pretentious, the audience can grow fast from gig to gig.

But first - find your scene, venue and audience

SPACERITUAL wrote:HEY YOU GUYS REMEMBER THIS???
viewtopic.php?f=150&t=38742&hilit=khanate





Man dos was being a whiny little biiiiiiitch here.

I miss retinal. That dude was fucking rad.

Still don't listen to Khanate v. often.

daseb wrote: Hell unless you're part of the cool kids club what you'll probably actually see is people doing a much shittier version of what you're doing and getting way more popular and more opportunities because of it.

This drives me up a fucking wall. I expect it and shit, but oh my it's so infuriating.

casecandy wrote:I never understood people who go to a show for reasons other than "I want to see the band(s)." Don't get me wrong, I'm aware that without people who go to shows to get drunk, get high, and get laid, the live music industry would likely collapse. It's just that I can't help but feel a little teensy bit of disdain for them. You know, when I'm up against the bars, screaming my heart out with my hand on my chest, and you spill your beer on me... bro. Trying to rock out here. Consider it a hangover from my brief-lived and ill-advised straightedge period.

I dont know about being straightedge or anything but Jfrey definitely has witnessed the phenomenon of many hipster bitches being constantly sketched out like an israeli boarder guard lest they inadvertently get knocked out because they were standing too close to me whilst i was generally flailing about to BIG BUSINESS like an orangutan at the zoo thats been hit by one too many peanuts.


Like i get that youre just here to check in on foursquare and shit but stay the fuck out of my way when im grooving to tunes. Im here to get wildly shitfaced and beat my fists into the stage till they bleed and scream the lyrics louder than the clubs PA so that my favorite band actually gets uncomfortable with how into it I am. And dont tell me to chill out. Fuck you this is my only night off this week and somebody made a giant mistake and booked a band that doesnt suck shit so youre just going to have to deal with the fact that someone is enjoying their life for the next 35 minutes or whatever.

SPACERITUAL wrote:

casecandy wrote:I never understood people who go to a show for reasons other than "I want to see the band(s)." Don't get me wrong, I'm aware that without people who go to shows to get drunk, get high, and get laid, the live music industry would likely collapse. It's just that I can't help but feel a little teensy bit of disdain for them. You know, when I'm up against the bars, screaming my heart out with my hand on my chest, and you spill your beer on me... bro. Trying to rock out here. Consider it a hangover from my brief-lived and ill-advised straightedge period.

I dont know about being straightedge or anything but Jfrey definitely has witnessed the phenomenon of many hipster bitches being constantly sketched out like an israeli boarder guard lest they inadvertently get knocked out because they were standing too close to me whilst i was generally flailing about to BIG BUSINESS like an orangutan at the zoo thats been hit by one too many peanuts.


Like i get that youre just here to check in on foursquare and shit but stay the fuck out of my way when im grooving to tunes. Im here to get wildly shitfaced and beat my fists into the stage till they bleed and scream the lyrics louder than the clubs PA so that my favorite band actually gets uncomfortable with how into it I am. And dont tell me to chill out. Fuck you this is my only night off this week and somebody made a giant mistake and booked a band that doesnt suck shit so youre just going to have to deal with the fact that someone is enjoying their life for the next 35 minutes or whatever.

Strange Tales wrote:

daseb wrote: Hell unless you're part of the cool kids club what you'll probably actually see is people doing a much shittier version of what you're doing and getting way more popular and more opportunities because of it.

This drives me up a fucking wall. I expect it and shit, but oh my it's so infuriating.

yeah it sucks. Especially when a lot of friendships and ideas being sold end up getting involved and stuff. I've had to opt out of a lot of stuff because of it just to keep my sanity at this point.