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Seriously this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I like my guitar a lot, and my amp is pretty decent for generic rockin' tones, but I've yet to hear a dirt tone that really feels right to me. For a while I was going with trebley clangy kind of sounds, I still use those now and again. I don't want to just copy Daniel Ash anyway. My favourite guitar sound right now is the mid position of my Tele into the SM. But it's not really an "always on" sound, it's a big squelchy fuzz tone. I have trouble finding a main tone I like.

I use to love my Turbo RAT, so I fired it on today. It was a little disappointing, though I think I'm used to using it with humbuckers. It just sounds like a Marshall pedal in a box. That's basically what RATs are, only grittier, and the Turbo RAT is a higher gain version of that.

I like the sound of my Tele through the JCM800 model on my AD30VT. I wasn't that fond of Marshall tones for quite some time until I realised how much better they sound with a Tele rather than a Les Paul type guitar.

Most proper tube amps, I don't know, still sound quite "dry" to me, like I may as well get an SS. At first that was what got me interested in tube amps, I thought they had to be real saturated and roundy. Now I realise I was imagining most of that sound.

The amps I do quite like are the Orange amps - but they're too expensive. The only one I could hypothetically afford is the TT, but no effects loop blows since I like to use high gain with delay. What I like about Orange amps is that they sound thick and juicy, and also have this "blocky" quality(dunno what else to call it, the Aenima is kind of similar).

I'm wondering maybe a Peavy amp might work for me. I was never interested in Peavy amps before, but I seem to remember they have that "wet" kind of sound in some cases. I checked out the Classic 30 though, and it didn't really have that sound, it was more a generic tube amp.

I don't know what to do. I wouldn't mind having one really awesome SS amp(a small one like the Lunchbox maybe), and one really juicy Tube amp, and the modeler for everything else. The effects loop restriction is a big one, there's quite a few nice smallish heads that simply do not have one. A Peavy amp might be a good idea though given none are modled on my AD30VT or hold out to see if Orange release the TT with an effects loop. It'd need to take pedals well too.

I wouldn't let the effects loop thing put you off.

I personally don't like effects loops, prefer the sound of effects into the front end.
I think the sound better that way.

The thing about tube amps is, a good one can sound very organic and breath with your playing.
You don't need channel switching, built in distortion or any of that.

Plus with a tube rectifier you get that sag and natural compression when you push things.
Ok some have a bit too much and no clean sound at all which is another thing all together.

Finding your sound is a personal thing.
Some people take years trying every thing and still not quite finding it.

Sadly the sound in your head can't be heard by any body else, so their advice is based on their own idea of “the sound”.

the first hurtle is the clean sound, when you find that, the rest comes pretty easily.

I'm lucky, I plugged a Jazz bass into an Ampeg, the earth moved and I was there.

MM

Roseweave wrote:Seriously this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I like my guitar a lot, and my amp is pretty decent for generic rockin' tones, but I've yet to hear a dirt tone that really feels right to me. For a while I was going with trebley clangy kind of sounds, I still use those now and again. I don't want to just copy Daniel Ash anyway. My favourite guitar sound right now is the mid position of my Tele into the SM. But it's not really an "always on" sound, it's a big squelchy fuzz tone. I have trouble finding a main tone I like.

I use to love my Turbo RAT, so I fired it on today. It was a little disappointing, though I think I'm used to using it with humbuckers. It just sounds like a Marshall pedal in a box. That's basically what RATs are, only grittier, and the Turbo RAT is a higher gain version of that.

I like the sound of my Tele through the JCM800 model on my AD30VT. I wasn't that fond of Marshall tones for quite some time until I realised how much better they sound with a Tele rather than a Les Paul type guitar.

Most proper tube amps, I don't know, still sound quite "dry" to me, like I may as well get an SS. At first that was what got me interested in tube amps, I thought they had to be real saturated and roundy. Now I realise I was imagining most of that sound.

The amps I do quite like are the Orange amps - but they're too expensive. The only one I could hypothetically afford is the TT, but no effects loop blows since I like to use high gain with delay. What I like about Orange amps is that they sound thick and juicy, and also have this "blocky" quality(dunno what else to call it, the Aenima is kind of similar).

I'm wondering maybe a Peavy amp might work for me. I was never interested in Peavy amps before, but I seem to remember they have that "wet" kind of sound in some cases. I checked out the Classic 30 though, and it didn't really have that sound, it was more a generic tube amp.

I don't know what to do. I wouldn't mind having one really awesome SS amp(a small one like the Lunchbox maybe), and one really juicy Tube amp, and the modeler for everything else. The effects loop restriction is a big one, there's quite a few nice smallish heads that simply do not have one. A Peavy amp might be a good idea though given none are modled on my AD30VT or hold out to see if Orange release the TT with an effects loop. It'd need to take pedals well too.

I recently took the peavey plunge (again), I used to have a stereo chorus 212, and hated it. I bought a Peavey Triumph PAG 60. Wow! I've never been so impressed with a 6l6 amp. Ive owned alot too (70's twin reverb, trace elliott speed twin, Gibson goldtone 60 watter etc). The amp has a V30 upgraded speaker as well as tung sol 5881 (errr something), but it's got a rich clean sound with great headroom. The crunch is fat and complex and the ultra channel just has loads more gain than the crunch. Over all it's an awesome amp. I got it for $255 shipped. Best amp investment EVAR. I recently sold my Gibson goldtone (el84 15 watter) and was kicking myself cause it's such a great amp... I don't even miss it. Also the Peavey ultras are supposed to be similar. Although the amps are ugly as shit they sound great.

metalmariachi wrote:I wouldn't let the effects loop thing put you off.

I personally don't like effects loops, prefer the sound of effects into the front end.
I think the sound better that way.

The thing about tube amps is, a good one can sound very organic and breath with your playing.
You don't need channel switching, built in distortion or any of that.

Plus with a tube rectifier you get that sag and natural compression when you push things.
Ok some have a bit too much and no clean sound at all which is another thing all together.

Finding your sound is a personal thing.
Some people take years trying every thing and still not quite finding it.

Sadly the sound in your head can't be heard by any body else, so their advice is based on their own idea of “the sound”.

the first hurtle is the clean sound, when you find that, the rest comes pretty easily.

I'm lucky, I plugged a Jazz bass into an Ampeg, the earth moved and I was there.

MM

But see you can't run delay or reverb up front or it becomes a totally different effect. I like to use delay on lead/solos. I generally need at least a little delay or reverb on all my tones.

yeah, i was a die hard effects loop guy for a long time. now i just try to get a great clean sound and color it from there with pedals - some of which are quite high gain! all my effects go up front... and i have a couple delays that are on *nearly* all the time. i've really never been happier with my guitar tone.

Loops are mostly if you use a lot of heavy distortion from your amp...but most pedal guys are playing clean tube amps with dirt pedals so it isn't really an issue.

Save loose change for a rockerverb or go for a cheap clean amp with some nice dirt pedals.

If that's true, then I probably just need a pedal since cheap clean tone tube amps are not difficult to come by and there are a few decent clean settings on my amp(it has a power tube). It's mainly the gain tone I don't have at the moment. The closest pedal I have to what I want is the Aenima, but it's very noisy and has a more icepick like quality.

Just now I thought it was actually my ears(I have sinus problems), because I noticed the sound from my computer speakers were the same. Then I turned off te Dolby Prologic shite... so it's probably an EQ issue, maybe I prefer a different mid frequency to be emphasised as that was the issue here.

I may swap out the speaker in my amp(again) if anyone wants a fairly new Copperhead(preferably UK). Maybe I should have gone for the Rajun Cajun after all.

Roseweave wrote:

metalmariachi wrote:I wouldn't let the effects loop thing put you off.

I personally don't like effects loops, prefer the sound of effects into the front end.
I think the sound better that way.

The thing about tube amps is, a good one can sound very organic and breath with your playing.
You don't need channel switching, built in distortion or any of that.

Plus with a tube rectifier you get that sag and natural compression when you push things.
Ok some have a bit too much and no clean sound at all which is another thing all together.

Finding your sound is a personal thing.
Some people take years trying every thing and still not quite finding it.

Sadly the sound in your head can't be heard by any body else, so their advice is based on their own idea of “the sound”.

the first hurtle is the clean sound, when you find that, the rest comes pretty easily.

I'm lucky, I plugged a Jazz bass into an Ampeg, the earth moved and I was there.

MM

But see you can't run delay or reverb up front or it becomes a totally different effect. I like to use delay on lead/solos. I generally need at least a little delay or reverb on all my tones.

I don't know about that. I have an Orange AD30 and run delay and reverb out front and it works fine even with the gain on the amp half way dialed. I play some pretty spacey delay and verb tones too.

When you run delay into dirt, for a start the compession distortion adds means that most of the echoes keep at more or less a consistant volume up until a certain point(just get less distorted). The echoes also blend in with the sound and generally aren't noticable until you stop playing.

If you use delay for that kind of effect, then it works, but I like to have some more traditional type delay(just cranked up).

You know, I think I probably just need a very good dirt box and a nice clear but warm sounding SS amp.

Can anyone suggest a dirt box that has a real "Saturated" tone? I can't think of any at the moment, aside from the Bad Monkey but that's a bit too low gain for me I think and is basically a TS clone. I don't know how to describe it, but most gain tones sound more harsh and broken, like there's bits missing in between. Some amps like oranges and some peavies almost seem to have a "liquid" sound in that gap. I have a stereo electric mistress which provides an exagerration of that "saturated" sound but it's not practical to have it on all the time sadly.

The Soda meiser on the neck pickup sounds "Saturated" too in a similar way, but I want more of a rockin' distortion tone.

Roseweave wrote:When you run delay into dirt, for a start the compession distortion adds means that most of the echoes keep at more or less a consistant volume up until a certain point(just get less distorted). The echoes also blend in with the sound and generally aren't noticable until you stop playing.

If you use delay for that kind of effect, then it works, but I like to have some more traditional type delay(just cranked up).

I think Arch was talking about putting the delay in front of the amp(as in not in th loop), not at the front of the chain.

Catalinbread super charged overdrive is a nice mid/hi gain-saturated pedal. Some say cbread went for the "orange" sound...the pedal is orange so
I love my scod but YMMV.

I think Arch was talking about putting the delay in front of the amp(as in not in th loop), not at the front of the chain.

Yeah, but I like to use amp gain. The SCO definitely sounds like an Orange amp but has a kind of muskier flavour, not as "wet" to my ears.

I don't have much money at the moment either, so I'd like to look at <100 stuff.

check out the Vox Satchurator.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=482295

It has a very nice overdriven sound, and it works with both bass and guitar.

My son gave me one for Christmas and I really like it.

MM

Has anyone tried the Proco solo? It looks a lot more versatile than my Turbo RAT.

Roseweave wrote:Has anyone tried the Proco solo? It looks a lot more versatile than my Turbo RAT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIdgyFcmGY4&feature=PlayList&p=C7F3A667F6EA8BED&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16
Looks more versatile than the Turbo RAT but it doesn't seem to be as grotty and dirty.