Favorite Doom style Drummers..

[OrangeSunn]

What are your favorite styles of doom drummers and or techniques. What are your expectations in an individual. I've recently been discussing basic drum theory/techniques, in hopes to better communicate certain rhthyms and beats that I feel, while writing on the fly. Such as odd 16th note rhthyms or 32nd note fills. Does it come of to critical or duechy to expect a drummer to comply or attempt to correlate any type of patterns. My main expectation is common interest and dedication since there very few highly skilled drummers to go around. Other than that I feel that if they have the basic fundementals down, and other technicalities can be learned as stuff gets written, even at an intermediate level.

[ShaolinLambKiller]

I'm all about feel. So even if they are just doing a basic 4/4 but playing energetically and in pocket with the rest of the band I don't care if they know one cymbal from the other. Hell i can even stand sloppy if it's still the energy and passion for the music there.

[OrangeSunn]

I agree. Energy and feel has to be there 100% of the way.

[Ancient Astronaught]

I'll write an in depth post tomorrow at work, but coming from a 20 year drumming back ground I'm pretty OCD about drummers.... But if you hit hard and can keep time I'm usually satisfied.

As far as favorite "doom" drummer...

Michael Henry from bongzilla. The dude is just sick, he has the best of technicality and passion. His beats and fills flow like nobody else I've seen.

[Iommic Pope]

Des Kensel.

[OrangeSunn]

Yup. Passion in must as well.

And that dude is just plain sick on the drums.

[OrangeSunn]

It's toss up for me. But B.J Graves or Travis Foster makes my list.

[Chankgeez]

Foucault in corpsepaint.

[Iommic Pope]

Ooooooooooooh....you have touched me in a way I had not thought possible.
I'll get onto it in a bit.

Have I ever mentioned you're a fucking genius, Chank?

[Chankgeez]

[D.o.S.]

I'll write an in depth post tomorrow at work, but coming from a 20 year drumming back ground I'm pretty OCD about drummers.... But if you hit hard and can keep time I'm usually satisfied.

As far as favorite "doom" drummer...

Michael Henry from bongzilla. The dude is just sick, he has the best of technicality and passion. His beats and fills flow like nobody else I've seen.

+1 to Magma.

Haikus is still my favorite drummer as far as the strength of material, though.

[Road Bull]

*Holy fuck that was lucky! I just copied this before I posted and good thing. Even though I logged in, it wanted me to log in again when I hit "submit".. then poof! post gone... lol* Anyway...

Ahh.. A topic I CAN contribute to!

"What are your favorite styles of doom drummers and or techniques"
Well, I R a drummer and have a few points of view on this topic. There are some things I strive for in my music and then there are things I like hearing, AND seeing when I listen to someone. Sure the "feel" needs to be there, but that is pretty nebulous. I certainly hope there is some passion in what is being played, not too rigid and mechanical. You can be really technically proficient, even amazing in the talent department, but lacking in soul. Think of it like this, there are people that play, and without SEEING them you know WHO it is. Drummers like Dale Crover, Cody Willis, Dave Turncrantz, and John Bonham, sound pretty distinct. It may take a drummer a lifetime to develop his style and feel. He/she may never even find it. We all have very similar tools to get our music across, but its more about how you play something and make the beat "your own" or put your stamp on it.

Some of that can be the tone of the drums and cymbals used. This may sound like a subtle nuance, but often I listen to someone and think that it might sound better if they made a small change. For instance many drummers muffle the fuck out of their drums, or tune them way too low. They end up sounding like someone is hitting wet cardboard. BOO HISS. Then, even when they pull off some cool fill or transition, it ends up getting lost in the mix. I realize that some just have to do the best they can with what they got too.

Drummers should be able to stay in time and in the pocket and feel the pulse of what is going on around them. I often think, what can I do that would make the song more solid, or give it a subtle shift all the way to a totally different feel. And is that what it CALLED for. Just because you CAN play something doesn't mean you SHOULD. It is important to know how to incorporate space in what you are playing and allow your band mates time to shine. There are times when I try to hang back a bit in the mix or NOT do some super fill because John is soloing, or I know Tony is going to do a bass run. Sure I could play something to match or go over it, but it is important to remember it is not always about ME. This has been interesting for me in Infinite Flux because we are a three piece. So on the one hand I feel that I need to push a little harder to fill up some space, but I also try to keep it from sounding too over the top and busy. When I think about it though, I listen to a fair amount of drummers that are in three piece bands, so its good mental exercise to listen to what they are doing and how it works for the band. Take the things you like and incorporate that into the band and discard the things that you don't like.

For instance, Cody Willis of Big Business has a style that is a lot busier than most. He has commented on this in interviews citing that when Big Business started out, they were a two-piece. So, if he played a straight beat to what Jared was playing on bass, it might sound too open and sparse. So you end up with tons of drums all the time. That would not work well in all situations. But in BB and the Melvins, it works.

I like drummers that put the little touches into their playing. The ghost notes and other things that might even get lost in the mix are still important. These little things help a drummer sound alive and human and not like some metronome clicking out beats and simply keeping time. It also keeps you from sounding too repetitive.


"What are your expectations in an individual. I've recently been discussing basic drum theory/techniques, in hopes to better communicate certain rhthyms and beats that I feel, while writing on the fly. Such as odd 16th note rhthyms or 32nd note fills. Does it come of to critical or duechy to expect a drummer to comply or attempt to correlate any type of patterns."
There are times when sitting there and hammering out exactly what you want to-the-beat might work and sound "best", but don't force it. Its not worth getting wrapped around the axle about wanting the drummer to do 32nd note fills with bass/bell accents on 9 and 17. I find that I have to feel it, or hear it mentally, or see how it fits with what is being played.

Before I linked up with John and Tony I played briefly with another guitarist and bassist. At first I linked up with the guitarist. It sounded like we had common interests and he had some SWEET gear. He was into DOOMY stuff like EW and so on and had a few ECG guitars with some nice gear, even by this gang's standards. Plush, Hoovercraft, blardy blardy blar.. We talked about finding a bass player. In the mean time were were just jamming some improv stuff. It sounded pretty decent for the time we were putting into it. Then he found a bassist... Well, nice enough guy, but he really wanted to do technical odd-time bizarre stuff for bizarre's sake. He really wanted a more death-doom-metal feel. One of his favorite bands was Gorguts if that gives you and idea. Man, it got dumb fast. He would get and idea for how he felt it should be and get all rigid about it. He would come op with some odd time signature that would switch back and forth every other measure, you know... for fun... (sigh) I felt it lacked in the feel department and I played what I thought would make it sound better. Ooooooh he hated 4/4 that I would play over his shit. Well, that didn't last long as my first attempt at getting back behind the drums after a few year break.

I then found Infinite Flux and was a lot happier. They had a few songs that I listened to before we got together for our first practice. They said that they had a kit there and that I just needed to bring a few things. I showed up, got the kit set up and I think we played Sleep's Dragonaut for our first song together. I hadn't played it before on drums, but I felt I could cop the feel fairly well. After that, we ran through the rest of the set playing what I could remember of what I had listened to and making up the rest. It went pretty well and I was already having an infinitely better time playing than my previous experience. And there wasn't a lot of, "Hey... I think you should play this here and that there" sort of discourse.

You can get there, but give it time in the beginning. You have to get used to playing with each other first before you get "locked-in".


"My main expectation is common interest and dedication since there very few highly skilled drummers to go around. Other than that I feel that if they have the basic fundementals down, and other technicalities can be learned as stuff gets written, even at an intermediate level."
That's pretty realistic. Yes, he should be able to keep time, know the basics, have a bit of feel and not be too rigid, and not be an ass. There is a lot to be said for someone who may not be the best, but loves what he is doing and is WILLING TO PRACTICE and get better. I am sure I could be better is I could play drums where I live. As of now, my drums live a John's house. But that doesn't mean that I am not practicing in my head. Mentally, I can play and plan parts out that I will try out on the drums later. If it feels like work.. then it is. There is a difference between work and effort. Practicing takes time and effort. As long as someone is willing to do these things, he or she will improve. Have fun. If you are both having fun, the rest will come.

For feel and enthusiasm, I like the new drummer for Weedeater, Travis Owen>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAy-U3SoLbk (he is way fun to watch and matches the energy level of Dixie very well)

For space, style (big flams) Dale Crover and Cody Willis>>(laying it down with music from the album Lysol>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pteQjtTvxAI

For a little unorthodox feel, I might say Dave Turncrantz from Russian Circles >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qz8UJUdWwg

For most of my life, I was not a fan, but I have come to really dig the man in a lot of ways. He really crafted a "BIG" drum sound that you take for granted these days. Plus.. he could play and hand a lot of little things and nuances that he laid down. Mr. John Henry Bonham. He had a way of playing that just was not done much up until then. check it>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7qxY-hb4k
(that's not to say that he didn't have ppl that influenced him)

I also really like how solid Bill Ward laid down a drum track. I loved this era of Black Sabbath.>>[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clySTJtd81c[/youtube]

So... there ya go.

-Ryder

[pelliott]

Not exactly doom but a guy who brings a ton of power and feel often in the same song is Danny Walker. He's just a joy to watch.

Also Rick Smith and Andrew Hernandez are a couple other favorites

[Ancient Astronaught]

So I was gonna type out a long essay response but Road Bull kinda hit the nail on the head for pretty much everything I was gonna say....

Drummers!!!!! DONT TUNE DOWN YOUR DRUMS!!!! They seem to fail to realize that drums sound totally different behind and in front of the kit. The low end carries, the upper harmonics you hear behind the kit don't. The tighter the head the more the punch!!!! If you want deeper sounding drums.... buy bigger drums!!!

[maggot]

Road Bull basically summed it up. What it comes down to is listening to who you're playing with. That goes for everyone in the band. If you write riffs that the drummer will sound good playing, everyone will be happier.

You've got to have some of the swing that Bill Ward brought to Black Sabbath. It's especially noticable on live YouTubes of the old stuff. Also you can reach a point of diminishing returns with bashing hard; tight and swinging will maker you sound bigger than an extra 5% of stage volume will. If you're gonna get fancy, it doesn't hurt to have triplets coming out your wazoo - see Sleep.

But Dale Crover!