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I've got a guitar, an amp and a pedalboard I am all very satisfied with and I'm looking to start building a respectable recording setup. Nothing too expensive, just better than an SM57 into an Alesis Multimix. I've got some solid headphones to use as monitoring while I'm recording and some respectable speakers for mixing (though they are not specifically intended for it, they'll be ok).

I'm thinking:

-Another microphone for some added depth, would you recommend another dynamic mic or maybe a condenser?
-A solid mic pre, probably a two channel one, don't know much about pres but whatever sounds good.
-Maybe a new interface? My Multimix could be re-purposed for noise stuff and whenever I record on with it I'm just not getting a full sound, there's just this Line6 Spider-esque sizzle. I'm sure this as partly due to my old amp and my inexperience at recording and lack of practice, but I think I could find something with a bit more warmth and punch.

I've been using Audition lately and have found it to my liking for recording guitar, the built in effects and plug ins work fairly well and are quite intuitive. I am planning to purchase EZ Drummer as well because I'll never find an actual one.

I'll be using this to record my horrible solo doom and black metal stuff and I don't need amazing quality at all, nor do I want it. I hate super-polished metal production, I just want a good full, natural sound.

So what do you all think? I don't really want to spend more than $300 on any one component so I'm not expecting something absolutely amazing.

Depending on what you want to record, you could either get another 57 to stereo mic things, or a decent condenser for a full, detailed sound on whatever you want. You can stereo mic stuff with a 57 and a condenser, it's just that often people like to used matched mics for balance. There are definitely decent condenser mics you can get for under $300 if you decide to go that route. You could also get a shure SM7B which is used a lot in recording metal vocals and, well, lots of stuff. It has a very natural sound, is a dynamic mic, and is used all over. You could actually get a 57 and maybe a budget large diaphragm condenser mic for under $300 all told, and that would open up the possibilities for you immensely.

The problems you're talking about with your interface, well... I don't know much about that product, but I generally find that if you're having problems getting a full, warm, sound, it's more likely that's a result of miking technique, gain staging, the volume of your amp that you're recording, the kind of amp your'e recording with, etc. Which is to say, that mixer should theoretically be fine. Not like a great, old analog console, of course, but you should definitely re-examine the more usual suspects first. There are always, always exceptions, but I've never heard anyone's recording who did the other stuff right but their mixing board was the thing making their recordings sound thin and shitty.

Again I don't know anything about your specific recording process, but based off of what you said I would recommend a 2nd 57 and a RELIABLE large diaphragm condenser. As long as the model has a good reputation for a low noise floor and not being fragile/shittily made, you should be good. It can't be said enough that your recording technique and performance technique is 95% of it. That's an arbitrary figure but so much can be done with such little/cheap gear if you know what you're doing.

art pro mpa is a good/cheap 2 channel preamp. swapped the tubes in mine, and it sounds fantastic.

friendship wrote:Depending on what you want to record, you could either get another 57 to stereo mic things, or a decent condenser for a full, detailed sound on whatever you want. You can stereo mic stuff with a 57 and a condenser, it's just that often people like to used matched mics for balance. There are definitely decent condenser mics you can get for under $300 if you decide to go that route. You could also get a shure SM7B which is used a lot in recording metal vocals and, well, lots of stuff. It has a very natural sound, is a dynamic mic, and is used all over. You could actually get a 57 and maybe a budget large diaphragm condenser mic for under $300 all told, and that would open up the possibilities for you immensely.

The problems you're talking about with your interface, well... I don't know much about that product, but I generally find that if you're having problems getting a full, warm, sound, it's more likely that's a result of miking technique, gain staging, the volume of your amp that you're recording, the kind of amp your'e recording with, etc. Which is to say, that mixer should theoretically be fine. Not like a great, old analog console, of course, but you should definitely re-examine the more usual suspects first. There are always, always exceptions, but I've never heard anyone's recording who did the other stuff right but their mixing board was the thing making their recordings sound thin and shitty.

Again I don't know anything about your specific recording process, but based off of what you said I would recommend a 2nd 57 and a RELIABLE large diaphragm condenser. As long as the model has a good reputation for a low noise floor and not being fragile/shittily made, you should be good. It can't be said enough that your recording technique and performance technique is 95% of it. That's an arbitrary figure but so much can be done with such little/cheap gear if you know what you're doing.

Was doing some more research today and a lot of it seems to agree with you. It was most likely the amp and the speaker I was using. My new OR15 and Orange 1x12 sound miles better. I've got a 1x15 being made too. So maybe I'll save up for a mic or two to fill things out first. Maybe an ART MPA Pre for vocals later on for some added warmth and coloration, I don't really like the vocal sound right into the mixer. I'll look into the SM7B and a condenser and in the mean time spend way more time experimenting with my technique as that will probably help me more than any gear I could buy, thanks for the advice

What type of room do you record and mix in....? How is it set up....? You can make very fine recordings with the gear you have. BUT if your room is not set up properly and if you don't have any sound treatment, you are fighting an up-hill battle. The best way to step up your recordings is to get your room and monitors in check. Otherwise you are just mixing and recording with lies.

Decibill wrote:What type of room do you record and mix in....? How is it set up....? You can make very fine recordings with the gear you have. BUT if your room is not set up properly and if you don't have any sound treatment, you are fighting an up-hill battle. The best way to step up your recordings is to get your room and monitors in check. Otherwise you are just mixing and recording with lies.

Just my basement bedroom, there's probably already so much shit in this room that I'm doubting sound treatment will be able to improve it. I live in a townhouse with two other guys, no room for a dedicated studio.

I'm unsure whether some room modifications or sound treatment will be able to make a difference

Wes Mantooth wrote:

Decibill wrote:What type of room do you record and mix in....? How is it set up....? You can make very fine recordings with the gear you have. BUT if your room is not set up properly and if you don't have any sound treatment, you are fighting an up-hill battle. The best way to step up your recordings is to get your room and monitors in check. Otherwise you are just mixing and recording with lies.

Just my basement bedroom, there's probably already so much shit in this room that I'm doubting sound treatment will be able to improve it. I live in a townhouse with two other guys, no room for a dedicated studio.

I'm unsure whether some room modifications or sound treatment will be able to make a difference

Room treatment and layout can make all the difference in the world...!!! I've experienced it myself. The three biggest jumps in my recording/mixing quality came when 1.I moved my set-up to the middle of the short wall, with the sound traveling long ways through the room (rectangualr room), 2.When I bought good monitors, and 3.When I installed bass traps and sound absorption panels. I've owned tons of mics, pre-amps and audio interfaces. They all had an impact but nothing near as significant as getting my mixing/recording space right.

Decibill wrote:Room treatment and layout can make all the difference in the world...!!!

+1 on room treatment and layout in regards to your monitoring speakers is key. a square room is the worst thing possible, but you can set up on the diagonal and that will deal with alot of the acoustical problems. in a typical room with bookshelves and painting on the walls and a couch and rug/bed you are doing some room treatment but its only in the uppermid to high's, so you're already off balance and bass heavy.

best and cheapest way to deal with this is to go to your local home depot/lowes whatever and buy four bags of unfaced fiberglass, or the blue nonfiberglass version. these bags are about four feet high, and you should just be able to bear hug them, depending on how big you are. you can't miss them, all the other fiberglass will be in smaller batches. if you can't find the blue version, make sure you have them tape the bag shut very very well or you'll get fiberglass around and its itchy.

Take these home, and put one in each corner of your room, as the corners are where all the bass builds up. or if you're speakers are on one end of a long rectangular room, stack them floor to ceiling(best case scenario is floor to ceiling in all four corners).

now listen to some music you are familiar with. you should notice that you are hearing actually more bass, because all of the standing waves in the room corners have been absorbed by the "bass traps" allowing you to hear in greater detail the bass through the soup.

Or, if you don't notice anything you can just take them back for a full refund.

also, its important to pull your speakers away from the wall behind them and away from the side walls. there are many methods and maths to help find a good beginning spot, to help remove as many acoustic problems as possible.

symmetry is key, and you should be sitting just a bit further from the speakers than they are from one another, dead center. you'll be getting a much more accurate picture of what your recordings actually sound like.

good luck.

So do you all think even though my bed room is already full of random furniture that putting some bass traps and absorption panels up it would help? OR would I just be fighting a losing battle at this point?

It will help, and if you go on youtube there are a ton of DIY bass trap videos. There is no need to buy fancy materials, any porous insulation materiel should work.

Wes Mantooth wrote:So do you all think even though my bed room is already full of random furniture that putting some bass traps and absorption panels up it would help? OR would I just be fighting a losing battle at this point?

yes, all the random furniture is helping to break up reflections of higher frequencies and probably doing some random absorption, but doing nothing for the bass. try this, play some music loud and walk over to the corners behind the speakers...notice how much more bass there is? but a bass trap there and you're on the right track. for a more in depth study, check out the Master Handbook of Acoustics by F. Scott Everett. You'll learn everything you need to know about measuring and treating a control room, listening room, etc. he also gives great advice and how to on building your own sound absorbing devices. the most common sound absorber is made from corning semi-ridgid fiberglass panels...i think model 703 are 2x4' and 2" thick. there are other models. but these are designed for the walls and ceiling at reflection points. for bass traps, the quick and dirty method i described earlier should show you immediately their benefit, assuming your speakers are set up in the room correctly.

and if you eventually want to build "proper" bass traps, you can use the fiberglass that's in those bags in your bass traps. for a particular type of bass trap modeled after ASC tube traps, you have a cylinder 4 feet high and anywhere from 12" to 16" diameter, or what ever you need, the larger the trap the lower the frequencies it will effect. all the trap is, a layer of that fiberglass compressed really tight forming a circle on the outside, with a hollow center. placed in the corner the soundwaves hit the first layer of compressed fiberglass, then the second, then as they are reflected back into the room they go through the layers again for further absorption.

http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/tubetrap.htm

edit: if you do have bookshelves along the walls, or records or whatever....don't keep it tidy, pull books out at random depths everywhere. this is a freeby way to break up reflections. at higher frequencies, the soundwaves act just like a light source. so if all your walls/ceiling/floor were mirrors and you put a lamp atop your speaker, sitting in the listening chair you can see all the reflections going back and forth muddying up your sound. at these points where you can see the light bulb is a spot where you want to put an absorption panel....etc. some reflection points are more important than others.

Uncle Grandfather wrote:

Wes Mantooth wrote:So do you all think even though my bed room is already full of random furniture that putting some bass traps and absorption panels up it would help? OR would I just be fighting a losing battle at this point?

yes, all the random furniture is helping to break up reflections of higher frequencies and probably doing some random absorption, but doing nothing for the bass. try this, play some music loud and walk over to the corners behind the speakers...notice how much more bass there is? but a bass trap there and you're on the right track. for a more in depth study, check out the Master Handbook of Acoustics by F. Scott Everett. You'll learn everything you need to know about measuring and treating a control room, listening room, etc. he also gives great advice and how to on building your own sound absorbing devices. the most common sound absorber is made from corning semi-ridgid fiberglass panels...i think model 703 are 2x4' and 2" thick. there are other models. but these are designed for the walls and ceiling at reflection points. for bass traps, the quick and dirty method i described earlier should show you immediately their benefit, assuming your speakers are set up in the room correctly.

and if you eventually want to build "proper" bass traps, you can use the fiberglass that's in those bags in your bass traps. for a particular type of bass trap modeled after ASC tube traps, you have a cylinder 4 feet high and anywhere from 12" to 16" diameter, or what ever you need, the larger the trap the lower the frequencies it will effect. all the trap is, a layer of that fiberglass compressed really tight forming a circle on the outside, with a hollow center. placed in the corner the soundwaves hit the first layer of compressed fiberglass, then the second, then as they are reflected back into the room they go through the layers again for further absorption.

http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/tubetrap.htm

edit: if you do have bookshelves along the walls, or records or whatever....don't keep it tidy, pull books out at random depths everywhere. this is a freeby way to break up reflections. at higher frequencies, the soundwaves act just like a light source. so if all your walls/ceiling/floor were mirrors and you put a lamp atop your speaker, sitting in the listening chair you can see all the reflections going back and forth muddying up your sound. at these points where you can see the light bulb is a spot where you want to put an absorption panel....etc. some reflection points are more important than others.

I do keep my room pretty messy so that'll probably help

Well when I have an extended amount of free time I'll go about some DIY acoustic treatment for the room. So I know that ideally you want a tidy room with strategically placed traps and diffusers but in my situation I should just mostly focus on maximizing bass absorption and finding a good speaker placement? Right now I have my cab set up a foot from a sidewall basically in the mid point of the room.

Thanks for all the pointers everyone! I had very little knowledge on this subject.

Remember also that it's kind of a journey, so don't wait until you arrive at a "perfect" recording environment to make music. Keep making music and recording it even when things aren't ideal. You can really only learn this stuff when you're doing it.

friendship wrote:Remember also that it's kind of a journey, so don't wait until you arrive at a "perfect" recording environment to make music. Keep making music and recording it even when things aren't ideal. You can really only learn this stuff when you're doing it.

Oh absolutely I'm going to start recording song ideas this weekend and just see how my recording skills progress until I am at a spot I'm really happy with

Yeah, lots of great advice here. The bass trap's aren't just trapping bass. They are doing broadband absorption, highs and lows. Most materials don't extend very low in this regard. If you get into the DIY thing (these are very easy and very cheap to build) I'd recommend using OC703 or OC705. For you in your area, you can find it here:
http://www.apidistribution.com/index.php
As mentioned before, lots of tutorials on the web......!!!