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There's an interview with Patti Smith where she talks about art, being a woman, feminism, etc. I totally agree with everything she says. I don't know how to post it because its part of a school library database.... but here's some quotes.

“When I paint, when I draw, when I take a photograph, I’m not conscious of my gender. The only thing that matters is my subject, and I try to be a good artist.”

“I didn't want to become a woman, I didn't want to have breasts, to have children. I wanted to be eleven, with my dog, and read books... I wasn't able to be Peter Pan, but all my life I've felt the call.”

-Patti Smith

My friend refuses to believe that JD Samson (middle) is a girl...

For me, gender changes my perception of things, it seems. Things that are awesome when a girl does them aren't so great coming from a guy. For example, when I find out a female friend of mine plays music, it's a lot more interesting than when it's a male friend. I think the natural "toughness" of males plays a huge roll in that. We (males) are more able to deal with the sore fingers of starting out.

That said, I've always related to my female friends much better. We tend to share more interests and have more interesting conversations. I think girls feel more comfortable with gay boys anyways, even if they still like girls. I haven't figured it out, but it seems like if a girl that I'm talking to finds that out, they become much more interested in me, as a friend. Of course, as a lover it gets in the way.

I've never payed much attention to the differences in sexuality. I know guys tend to "think with their dicks," as they say. I wouldn't let any of my really close female friends date my best friend without lots of warning and discouragement, as sad as that is. I know girls that are just as bad, but typically, girls seem to want sex to mean something. I dunno, though. I don't talk about sex too much with my friends unless it's dirty jokes or something.

The biggest annoyance between male and female for me is their inability to grasp how the other thinks. I think I'm more of a girl, mentally, and my male friends are never very understanding of how I feel about certain things. They tend to say I over-react, but, to me, it seems like they just don't care-- and they don't. It's simply because they don't feel like dealing with these problems, and they want them to just go away. Usually, they do. I guess there's something to it. But I couldn't imagine going through life being totally careless about shit... Personally, I think guys just lie about how they feel in order to look tough. Bastards.

... I may add more later. My nosy assed roommate is leaning over my shoulder.

McSpunckle wrote:Personally, I think guys just lie about how they feel in order to look tough. Bastards

Agreed. and with the female musician thing, I agree. There a lot of famous alternative bands with females in them (pixies, sonic youth, pumpkins, white stripes, subways, etc.). ... just seems like they get a little more attention. And I'll admit a woman that is into music as much as I am or plays an instrument is way more interesting to me than the woman who isn't.

PumpkinPieces wrote:

McSpunckle wrote:Personally, I think guys just lie about how they feel in order to look tough. Bastards

Agreed. and with the female musician thing, I agree. There a lot of famous alternative bands with females in them (pixies, sonic youth, pumpkins, white stripes, subways, etc.). ... just seems like they get a little more attention. And I'll admit a woman that is into music as much as I am or plays an instrument is way more interesting to me than the woman who isn't.

You should have a look at amanda palmer

I've seen better days, but I don't care! Oasis got my letter in the mail.

smile_man wrote:

letigre_promo.jpg

My friend refuses to believe that JD Samson (middle) is a girl...

I met them (Le Tigre) when my band played the CMJ convention. I've met quite a few famous artists, but for some reason they had me star-struck and nervous. They're such icons of cool.

As far as gender in music goes, I either feel the music or not. There's no special scale for either gender. A lot of my very very very favorite artists are female. On the short list, Liz Frasier (of Cocteau Twins), Joni Mitchell, Chrissie Hynde, are absolute heroes of mine.

I also played in a band for a few years with a female singer/songwriter. I found out all singers are hard to work with, regardless of gender. Hahaahhaa. (Only slightly kidding.)




On a more serious note....I have a cousin who was transexual. He had the full reassignment (female -->male) in his twenties. I just recieved a call yesterday that he died of a heart attack.
Lee...RIP

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FuzzyWuzzy wrote:On a more serious note....I have a cousin who was transexual. He had the full reassignment (female -->male) in his twenties. I just recieved a call yesterday that he died of a heart attack.
Lee...RIP

.

That sucks, dude. Sorry.

I think gender obviously effects social situations, but it definately doesn't effect me in any way when it comes to art in various forms. I'm sorry it effects anyone when it comes to that.

Well, um... IDK...

I guess it means, according the the ideas that have been projected upon me throughout life, is that I'm not a real man, because I'm not, and never have been things I'm "supposed" to be as a man.

I've always hated all those things that "make me a man" because I'm not typically assertive or confrontational, and I like to give as much as I get, and I never got athleticism (as far as being a glory whore and a "CHAM-PEE-YUN" goes, not being healthful, or just enjoying a sport... It's the whole aspect of "being superior" that I dislike).

It's apparently "girly" (or just "faggish", har-har) to *not* be that way, which is how I've always been (and which has always made me feel uncomfortable in certain situations), and it's "feminist" of me to feel that a lot of those "traditional male" mindsets, like a need to be dominant, are actually just ways of coping with insecurities, and not something to take pride in.

I think, maybe, I'm more of a "stereotypical gay" than I'm willing to admit to myself... (I don't like to believe I have to "act like a fruit" to be bi/homosexual, either).

I am very much a male, physically, sexually, and mentally. But I've always been "effeminate" in a less-obvious sense... Like, I'm "emotionally" a woman. But that's not according to me, it's according to the world around me. And it's been the source of some (until recently, not-so-obvious to myself) inner turmoil, not being able to live up to my expectations as a man according to society, "or whatever".

IDK. I dislike the concept of gender roles and a person's "place" according to gender. I don't need to be "this and that", but I still sometimes feel like I'm a "failure" as a male or something. I'm not happy with being the stereotypical male. I actually start laughing at myself if I cry sometimes, you know? I don't "just cry", but if I'm dealing with something heavy and emotional, I will... and I have to hide it from people because it's not masculine... I have to fucking hide that shit from myself! WTF! I laugh because it's funny "how much of a girl I'm being", lawl.

It's quite possible that a lot of my inner-nature is a result of low self-esteem and/or spending most of my life growing up with my mom and two sisters or something, I guess, haha. Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble this much, but many of the things I've presented had not really occurred to me in much detail until I started describing them.

I have always had contradicting and unconventional (according to other people) attitudes on gender.

I grew up in a city that was obsessed with sports, and I was a large and strong boy, so I always played sports. By the time I was in high school, I was 6'2", 210, so I was on the football team and a confirmed "jock", even though I never hung out with anyone else from the football team when I wasn't at practice.

I also always played guitar/bass and was in bands since middle school. Most of my friends were girls and gay guys (yes, we had quite a few "out" gays in my high school), but I never got teased or harassed for it because I was a big and intimidating-looking guy. I always hated the macho meathead mentality of most straight guys I knew. I think that for most of my life, I always WISHED that I were gay, because that would almost make more sense, ya know? But I'm not; I am straight and that is just the way it is.

As I have gone through my 20's, I have begun to get along better with straight male friends, and have learned to relate to the parts of their personality that I DO like, even though there will always that macho, can't-talk-about-my-feelings thing that I will never get. The one thing that I have found that I can bond with these guys over is our taste in music. They are the first straight men I have hung out with that like the experimental, psychedelic, weird music that I've always been drawn to, instead of the cock rock that I always associated with straight guys.

ONce I had a dream my wife grew a penis.

So I sucked it for her.

aen wrote:ONce I had a dream my wife grew a penis.

So I sucked it for her.

We have had quite a few female guest lecturers in my class here.
Seems like the visual component of our studies kind of music, the fine art part of it, perhaps, attracts more women.
And we never really discuss how they fit in or not, only the quality of their works and whether or not there are enough women in sonic art. We think there are not, but it's definitely better than in many other kinds of music.

When you get to the very academic part of sonic art, the part where you get a job as a researcher or lecturer, I think it is different. Most high academics are still controlled by old geezers. But the women get the fun art places (to a greater extent). Those are the coolest anyway.

In my house we usually have big, loud, confusing discussions about the difference between female/male sexes and feminine/masculine power (in lack of a better word). I say society is controlled by masculine powers (like the day revolving around getting up at an unreasonable time), they think I talk about the feminist argument of the world being controlled by actual males. Which it kind of is, I say, because the women that are in control are products of a male world, trying to fit into a male image of a woman. And so we go back and fourth.
None of my friends really disagree, it's just that a discussion needs to have two sides.

I think we live in a society with strong religious undertones. There are pockets of open mindedness in this country, but sometimes it feels like an ant fighting a lion. I think there are influences (memes) that say we should be ashamed of our sexuality (in all forms), and gender is directly connected to that. I've always been drawn to the idea of yin/yang (male/female) sides of everyone. I love seeing people liberated enough to explore these parts of themselves, and it breaks my heart to not see this embraced in our society (America).

It is my opinion that when we see men or women (or those who wish to be in between) acting out. Such as when guys don't show their feelings (that seems to have been mentioned a lot here) it has to do with feeling unable to explore their sexuality openly. It's all about fear.

Is gender even related to sexual matters or sex?
First of all everyone has to well place all their related and non related issues with gender, because gender has been more related throughout history with more fundamental issues like power (political or whatever).
One of the most common judgement mistakes is to give such importance to gender, because we'll fall in a loophole where we may end thinking sex is power.