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I currently run an OR120 into a PPC412 (with V30's). SFT & Silverkiss as overdrive and boost.

pros:
moves air and thumps my body in a wonderful bloody loud way when playing rythym parts
Love the overdrive tone (attained at LOUD volumes at practice)
tight articulate bottom end
cab is VERY directional, good for practice where I can blast myself but not my bandmates,

cons:
as a single channel I can't use it for clean tones during solos. boosts only make it MORE overdrive
cab is VERY directional, bad for shows.
can't play small venues at loud volumes needed to get good amp overdrive tones
when I solo up the neck the highs become too piecing since none of the volume is being eaten up by the low end anymore.



ideas?

Nice amp. However one thing is certain: you need fuzz. Lots of it. It doesn't even matter what kind of music you play.....you need more fuzz. I can sense these things....

^Yarp, more fuzz and maybe try some different speakers.

Are you happy using the amp tone for clean and getting your dirt from pedals? A volume pedal between pedals and amp can act as a pedal master volume and, when the pedals are bypassed, allow you to get more volume from the amp.

A more extreme intervention would be having foot-switchable master volume controls installed in the amp. One volume is for as loud as you want to get with pedals pushing the front, the other for louder cleans, maybe even to use with your guitar volume backed off for headroom at the preamp. Handy but invasive if it's a vintage model. The original Overdrive models are the same as the OR models except for the master, which works very well but maybe loses a little something on the fully cranked tones. Other master circuits, like the Ken Fischer post-phase-inverter master circuit, are supposed to work even better. The practicality of performance-switchable masters is a bit beyond my tech knowledge, but I'm sure I've seen it done.

Oh, and ditch the cab or the V-30's. They probably have a lot of something to do with the beamyness and the annoying up-the-neck treble behavior.

Gone Fission wrote:Are you happy using the amp tone for clean and getting your dirt from pedals?

Judging by the youtube videos I just looked up, you definitely want the amp overdrive.

Gone Fission wrote:Are you happy using the amp tone for clean and getting your dirt from pedals?

i'm not happy, which is why I started this thread.
what amp would get me what I wants? (don't say a diesel 4 channel 5000$ amp please)
I'm looking at a Hiwatt DR201 ~ worth hitting for my goals? i get two channels of volume..

zRobertez wrote:Judging by the youtube videos I just looked up, you definitely want the amp overdrive.

yes, exactly this. but what about cleans? I can't have my cleans quieter then the overdrives.

Oh, and ditch the cab or the V-30's.

any recommendations?



is the master volume on a OD120 a post-phase-inverter? how is it different from the ken fisher?

Forrrest wrote:yes, exactly this. but what about cleans? I can't have my cleans quieter then the overdrives.

You could try a two amp deal with a stereo volume switchy thing. Unless you're needing to sell your current one for a new one.

I love v30s. If you want something more balanced and warmer on the high end with out the infamous celestion treble spike, try the Carvin GT12. Shit you not, has a very similar midrange character to the v30s and a rounded off top end. Question though: what guitar are you using and what kind of pickups?

Also, those straight cabs are great for low end and terrible for sound dispersing. Try a Mesa slant. It has the same cabinet depth as an orange and has the top slant, which makes a big difference. And v30s too.

For cab, slant 412 are better for dispersion than straight. A couple of smaller 212s spread out on the stage are better still, but don't have the same codpiece factor as a 412 if you need it. For alternate speakers with less shrill, Greenbacks are mellower but are too murky for some and not bass monsters -- very middy speakers. Emi Legends work for some guys as something a bit more well mannered and even than most Celestions. Or if you want cleaner speaker reproduction without so much tonal contribution, look at Emi Delta series or Celestion CL-80 or K-100. Hell, there are a lot of options, that's just quick starting points.

On Master volumes, start here:http://www.orangefieldguide.com/orange_mods.htm#_mod3 and peer at this preliminary OD schematic: http://www.orangefieldguide.com/OFG_SCHEM/ODschem_A.gif Where the ORs have coupling caps from the cathodyne phase inverters and then the bias feed resitors joint the path to the output tubes, the OD adds a 1M dual pot outputting to 330k resistors, another set of coupling caps, and then joining up with the bias feed resistors. The KF Master (Type 2 if you consult the much recirculated "Trainwreck Pages) would start from the simpler OR circuit but replace the two 220K bias feed resistors with a 250k dual pot. There are a ton of post-phase inverter master volume circuits, but the OFG has a report of successful use of the KF in an Orange of good results, so that sounds worthy. I do not know, however, whether that topology is a good one for switchable MV circuits, as I had suggested. (Safety disclaimer: If you don't know how to safely discharge the caps and safely work on the amp, this isn't DIY stuff.)

The master isn't going to get new sounds out of the amp, but it could make some existing sounds more readily available. Whether that's enough to keep it, I couldn't tell you, but you might already have a guess. If you want the Orange-type sound part time but another sound other times in the same head, maybe it's time to talk to Dunwich about a two-channel custom creation for substantially less than $5k. (I think half that for your current wattage range would be at his higher end most of the time.)

You could also get an attenuator, since the OR120 is a stupidly loud amp.

So I got a Hiwatt DR201 & a reissue Hiwatt cab with weber FC12 4X12

master volume, 2 channels, i'll get my overdrive from a pedal...
hopefully this works out. (if the cab doesn't do the trick I'll look to trade it for a mesa oversized slant)
the Emi Delta speakers are quite appealing, how much high frequency do they get?

the seller claimed the amp just got back from the tech, but after an hour of pounding on it I had the Kt88 shinning bright red, brighter then I've ever seen any power tube. I figure I've probably got to get the bias checked.