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Been writing alot of music lately, and my band wants me too play more solo's (atleast 4 on this album compared to one on the last) and i started to realize I've never liked "Shred" solo guitar players, yay you can play fast, and it sounds impressive but wheres the emotion? where's the soul? Music isn't a competition it's an expression. I'd much rather see a slow hand player that plays with soul than a shred player that's basically masterbating on stage. Thoughts? Opinions? Bueller?

Agreeed on this. Not a fan of "shredding" unless used to taste, like a little interjection if it makes sense in the context.
Like the solo in this song at 2:37 (not one of my favorites, but illustrates what I mean)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emMruh1krHs[/youtube]

But piles of notes, no thanks.

Ancient Astronaught wrote:Been writing alot of music lately, and my band wants me too play more solo's (atleast 4 on this album compared to one on the last) and i started to realize I've never liked "Shred" solo guitar players, yay you can play fast, and it sounds impressive but wheres the emotion? where's the soul? Music isn't a competition it's an expression. I'd much rather see a slow hand player that plays with soul than a shred player that's basically masterbating on stage. Thoughts? Opinions? Bueller?

I don't see playing fast or technically as necessarily expressing any less than playing slowly. Nor do I see playing slowly as particularly expressive simply by virtue of its pace. If anything I think it is very often the opposite of what is conventionally thought. I am moved by a technical player's passion for their instrument, and for music. Also, it is one thing to be able to play technically or quickly, but choose to play slowly because it suits the composition, and another thing entirely to play slowly or simply because that is all you can do. To me, perhaps the most important thing in music is intent. A lot of times when I listen to a slow "soulful" player, all I can think is 'this guy has no idea what he's doing' and to me, that isn't really expressing anything I care to listen to. A person that loves their instrument and loves music wants to be able to do more with it, and understand more about it, even if they choose not to use that knowledge or ability for compositional reasons.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPGPxc4jPvk[/youtube]

I'm a fan of melodic and memorable.
Some of my fave solos are from Elliot Easton of The Cars. Many of them aren't that easy to play...but aren't shred...and aren't necessarily "slow hand"......but they're always melodic and memorable.

I don't really have an opinion on the artistry or expressiveness of shredding. That's a case by case thing. I mean, you could say that both Steve Vai and Dragonforce "shred" their guitars, but we all know who's the artist and who's the wanker in that comparison. I just find shred to be really exhausting to listen to.

GardenoftheDead wrote:I just find shred to be really exhausting to listen to.

Agreed!

sev wrote:I'm a fan of melodic and memorable.
Some of my fave solos are from Elliot Easton of The Cars. Many of them aren't that easy to play...but aren't shred...and aren't necessarily "slow hand"......but they're always melodic and memorable.

I agree 100%, melodic and memorable solo's stand out alot more in my memory than the hundreds of death metal solos played as 32nd notes at 220bpm that i've heard.

jfrey wrote:I don't see playing fast or technically as necessarily expressing any less than playing slowly. Nor do I see playing slowly as particularly expressive simply by virtue of its pace. If anything I think it is very often the opposite of what is conventionally thought. I am moved by a technical player's passion for their instrument, and for music. Also, it is one thing to be able to play technically or quickly, but choose to play slowly because it suits the composition, and another thing entirely to play slowly or simply because that is all you can do. To me, perhaps the most important thing in music is intent. A lot of times when I listen to a slow "soulful" player, all I can think is 'this guy has no idea what he's doing' and to me, that isn't really expressing anything I care to listen to. A person that loves their instrument and loves music wants to be able to do more with it, and understand more about it, even if they choose not to use that knowledge or ability for compositional reasons.

Thats a valid point, and i can agree to that. I just don't see shred guitar playing meshing with my style so i focus on melody and fitment moreso than how many notes i can fit into these 4 measures. i want to do more with my instrument and i want to grow as a musician, it just seems that guitar players get judged alot of times by their speed or shredability which to me is just another contest to prove whos best when its not a race. As i grow i want to focus on dissonance mixed with melody and playing at painfully slow tempos as that is what i hear in my head as the end result of what i desire to express musically. I understand that style's, genre's and player's are infinitely different and hold nothing against shredders i just don't see the big appeal myself.

Ancient Astronaught wrote:Thats a valid point, and i can agree to that. I just don't see shred guitar playing meshing with my style so i focus on melody and fitment moreso than how many notes i can fit into these 4 measures. i want to do more with my instrument and i want to grow as a musician, it just seems that guitar players get judged alot of times by their speed or shredability which to me is just another contest to prove whos best when its not a race. As i grow i want to focus on dissonance mixed with melody and playing at painfully slow tempos as that is what i hear in my head as the end result of what i desire to express musically. I understand that style's, genre's and player's are infinitely different and hold nothing against shredders i just don't see the big appeal myself.

Ultimately speed is just another thing to have in your tool box. Also, speed is a by-product of accuracy and efficiency, which is essentially your ability to play a note, or a phrase, or anything else "well". Playing well is something to pursue regardless of the style or speed in your application.

If your composition is slow, then speed obviously isn't something your going to pull out. Like I said before, I think the most important thing is intent and purpose. If you're making conscious decisions about playing at a certain tempo or in a certain style, because that is what you have decided to create, then that has musical value. I just don't like the idea that one style or method automatically has more or less musical value.

jfrey wrote:I just don't like the idea that one style or method automatically has more or less musical value.

EXTREMELY valid point, and come to think of it, its just as easy for someone to say the opposite and only like shred solo's. For me to say that i despise or strongly dislike them is only personal opinion. I see their merit and where their musical value has a place, they just don't have a place with me. I just get offended when people see that skill as necessary for a guitar player to be "good", its not a deal breaker it's a musical decision. It's like saying whose a better guitar player Eric Clapton or Steve Vai? Their both phenominal guitar players, just completely different styles.

the genre is different, but django is a great example of shredding very beautifully.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-qWgNgWDe4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl8XcwXlYLU[/youtube]

I think the most important thing is intent and purpose. If you're making conscious decisions about playing at a certain tempo or in a certain style, because that is what you have decided to create, then that has musical value. I just don't like the idea that one style or method automatically has more or less musical value.

this.

Just posting this because I wanted to share. One of my favourite musicians, Kevin Hufnagel (Gorguts / Dysrhythmia). I'd say this is fairly technical playing - although not fast - but I think it is beautiful and very expressive.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXPq5VXG4Og[/youtube]

kaboom wrote:the genre is different, but django is a great example of shredding very beautifully.

Wow that guys is awesome! Def shows how speed picking used correctly can sound absolutely amazing when combined with more true jazz style licks!

jfrey wrote:Just posting this because I wanted to share. One of my favourite musicians, Kevin Hufnagel (Gorguts / Dysrhythmia). I'd say this is somewhat technical playing - although not fast - but I think it is beautiful and very expressive.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXPq5VXG4Og[/youtube]

That is gorgeous! That shows amazing talent without the need for 220bpm music behind it. (btw gorguts and dysrythmia are awesome bands!!! takes me back to when i was into death/black/prog metal)

Another of my favourite musicians, Maneli Jamal. He plays a combination of classical and flamenco and also utilizes techniques that are generally the province of metal. Very technical, occasionally "shred", and beautiful.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17y5Qtaix-w[/youtube]

On the other side of things, I find this just as enjoyable.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77kOyA-50y8[/youtube]


Personally some of the music I write is shreddy and often has things like sweeping. Some is as far from that as possible. I was working on a song the other day that my girlfriend said was "so slow it's actually painful to listen to."

Also, that ukulele track by Kevin Hufnagel recently convinced me to buy a ukulele.

Consider Matt Pike's style of soloing, which isn't really shredding, per se, but playing very fast and frenetically, in a chaotic manner.

they want solos, not shred. just go about it like that and do what the song suits.

the reason Tosin Abasi is the "new sound of metal guitar" isn't because he's good at soloing (he's above average) its because he's trying to break out of the aesthetic confines of the genre.

personally i'd argue that a lot of the Candyrat acoustic guys are just as contrived and emotionless as most shredders, if not moreso because of it's preconception of being "emotive and expressive". you can't say objectively that "oh this style of playing is more emotive than this" you just kinda gotta find your voice, i guess.



and for all y'all posting "technical but slow" pieces of fingerpicking: THATS FUCKING CHEATING

Tosin Abasi is the embodiment of tasty shredding to me... the new album is more "experimental" in this way, but i can really hear emotions in his leads on the debut

and live they're just EXPLOSIVE

the one thing i don't appreciate about Buckethead is the sometimes stupid shredding... otherwise the guy influenced me greatly, but mainly because "Electric Tears" are a non-shred thing