ilovefuzz.com

I make judgements about people based on their ability to appreciate the genius of The Shaggs. I avoid those who don't get it. I feel sorry for them but they are not worth bothering with.

Philosophy of the World
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxPsXPCR5MU[/youtube]

My Pal Foot Foot
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR9d4ESlpHY[/youtube]

Who are Parents?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cs1BIlglzI[/youtube]

There's something about them... It sounds like a completely different approach to music rather than normal music played badly and that's kinda cool. However it still isn't, for the most part, nice to listen to at all.

Do they have an songs about the devil? If not, total meh.

I banged em all

They have really original song structures, and suck uniquely. I can't take them for longer than a minute, so they're bad. Eye gouging bad.

dorfmeister wrote:I make judgements about people based on their ability to appreciate the genius of The Shaggs. I avoid those who don't get it. I feel sorry for them but they are not worth bothering with.

You must avoid a lot of people with that type of judgement system.

WayToHip wrote:They have really original song structures, and suck uniquely.

My feelings exactly.

Still, at least they tried. Better than pissing away an afternoon on an online forum.
yes, I recognize hypocrisy, and yes, i recognize the space/time continuum.

Holy Schnikes wrote:You must avoid a lot of people with that type of judgement system.

Yes. And it has worked out pretty well. There is a certain kind of person who can fully appreciate the Shaggs....they have a certain sense of humor, open-mindedness, and appreciation for sincerity and authenticity, even when that sincerity and authenticity may appear as ineptitude and something worthy of the scorn of others.

I really think the joke is on the "cool" people who could never risk as much as the Shaggs did. They just put it out there - - - it may appear naive, inept, misguided, even stupid, but there is a fragile tenuous beauty in it for those who are able to actually listen to the music and sense the hopes, dreams, and excitement of these girls as they wrote their songs, played them, and imagined people enjoying the music they had made....they made their own music....they didn't just passively sit by and let others make music ....they did it themselves....it is not cool...it is not skilled....but they went with and worked with what they could do.....and it has an unexpected magic too it that transcends the ineptitude.

The father is a funny figure in all of it...domineering, ambitious, probably not very bright, and he had a dream for his daughters and they seemed to share it and believe in it, even though for everyone else it must have seemed ridiculous....and what is funny is that they have found a place of honor in rock history even though, still, most heap scorn upon them without really listening or understanding.

I don't know about anybody else but I think the song "Philosophy of the World" is a classic.

Better Than The Beatles: A Tribute To The Shaggs



http://ie.7digital.com/artists/various- ... he-shaggs/

Lester Bangs on the Shaggs.

http://www.keyofz.com/vvoice.htm

I have been getting whiny letters from a lot of you lately complaining about the general state of the art. "What is all this shit?" you ask. "We thought New Wave was supposed to be this awakening of New Avenues of Self Expression and Freedom, resulting in new musical verities and new insights into the human condition even! Instead we went out and spent all this money, and all these records are shit!"

- - You're right about about one thing at least: all those record are shit, and you might as well have burned all those dollar bills. (Closer, 12 bucks, haw haw haw!) But those records aren't shit for the reasons that you think: those records are shit because they're all too good!

- - That's right. All those stupid bands were so stupid they plumb went out and learned to play their instruments, a process as ineluctable as the putrefaction of a corpse. Teach 'em a chord or two, then just watch those little bastards practice till they can switch off, back and forth between those two chords (then three, then four . . . never shoulda learned even one!) deft as Al DiMeola if he wanted to play that which he probably will soon! Damn!

- - Which is why the only hope for rock'n'roll, aside from everybody playing nothing but shrieking atonal noise through arbitor distorters, is women. Balls are what ruined both rock and politics in the first place, and I demand the world be turned over to the female sex immediately. Only hope. Valerie Solanas was so much greater a prophet than Warhol that I can only pray she might consent to lead the group I'm forming. The absolute best rock'n'roll anywhere today is being played by women: the other night I saw God in the form of the Au Pairs, the Slits are stupendous, the Raincoats are better than London Calling or anything by Elvis Costello, Chrissie Hynde doesn't count, Joan Jett deserves her place in the sun if not reparations, Lydia Lunch is the Female Role Model for the '80s besides being one of the greatest guitarists in the world . . . the list is endless. (Patti, come home!)

- - But credit must be given to the foremothers: the Shaggs. Way back in 1972 [sic] they recorded an album up in New England that can stand, I think, easily with Beatles '65, Life with the Lions, Blonde on Blonde, and Teenage Jesus and the Jerks as one of the landmarks of roll'n'roll history. The Wiggins [sic] sisters (an anti-power trio) not only redefined the art but had a coherent Weltanschauung on their very first album, Philosophy of the World. Basically what it comes down to is that unlike the Stones these girls are saying we love you, whether you're fat, skinny, retarded, or Norman Podhoretz even. Paul Weyrich. Don't make no difference, they embrace all because they are true one world humanists with an eye to our social future whose only hope is a redefined communism based on the open-hearted sharing of whatever you got with all sentient beings. Their and my religion is compassion, true Christianity with no guilt factors and no vested interest, perhaps a barter economy, but certainly the elimination of capitalism, rape, and special-interest group hatred. For instance, in their personal favorite number, "My Pal Foot Foot," they reveal how even a little doggie must be granted equal civil rights perhaps even extending to the voting booth. Hell, they let Nancy Reagan in! They also believe that we should jettison almost completely the high-tech society which has now perched us on the lip of global suicide, and return to third world-akin closeness with the earth, elements, nature, the seasons, as in my personal favorite on this album, "It's Halloween," which emphasizes that seasonal festivals are essential to a healthy body politic (why d'ya think all them people in California got no minds?).

- - Unfortunately the Wiggins's masterpiece was lost over the years -- it came out on a small label, and everybody knows the record industry has its head so far up its ass it's licking its breastplate. But this guy from NRBQ had the savvy to rescue it from oblivion (in a recent issue of Rolling Stone, he compared their work to early Ornette Coleman, and he's right, though early Marzette Watts might be more apt), so now we got it out on the Red Rooster label, which of course is a perfect joke on all those closet-queen heavy-metal cockrockers. How do they sound? Perfect! They can't play a lick! But mainly they got the right attitude, which is all rock'n'roll's ever been about from day one. (I mean, not being able to play is never enough.) You should hear the drum riff after the first verse and chorus of the title cut -- sounding like a peg-leg stumbling through a field of bald Uniroyals, it cuts Dave Tough cold and these girls aren't even junkies (of course!). They just whang and blang away while singing in harmonies reminiscent of three Singing Nuns who've been sniffing lighter fluid and their voices are just so copacetic [sic] together (being sisters, after all) you'd almost think they were Siamese triplets. Guitar style: sorta like 14 pocket combs being run through a moose's dorsal, but very gently. Yet it rocks. Does it ever. Plus having one of the greatest album covers in history, best since Blank Generation. God Bless the Shaggs. Now if they will only emerge from (semi?) retirement (?) no one ever will have cause again to say "Rock'n'Roll is dead, man . . ." Up an' at 'em, Valerie.

I love deerhoof, but even they can't make The Shaggs sound good. That was worse than the original!

I always took the father sort of forcing them in to it as a bit of a sinister thing which makes me feel weird about it all, adds a creepy vibe to the music for me.

I don't really get it when people go on about stuff like in that article, like they're taking everything too seriously. Plus all the message and attitude in the world doesn't magically make a bad song a good song. It might make it a cool statement or whatever but I still won't want to listen to it, which is what really counts (imo).

monkeydancer wrote:I always took the father sort of forcing them in to it as a bit of a sinister thing which makes me feel weird about it all, adds a creepy vibe to the music for me.

I don't really get it when people go on about stuff like in that article, like they're taking everything too seriously. Plus all the message and attitude in the world doesn't magically make a bad song a good song. It might make it a cool statement or whatever but I still won't want to listen to it, which is what really counts (imo).

Yes.....but I think the thing that for Lester Bangs is so crucial is the idea of people taking it upon themselves to do their own creative thing, whatever that might be, and that is important.

We live in a culture that is really fucking judgemental and focused around quality...and the model of quality isn't based on having something interesting to say....it is based on some superficial idea of being able to play ones instrument....or to have the technology to make it sound like you can play your instrument....autotune, loops, midi, click tracks, etc.....unfortunately for most the crucial idea of SELF-EXPRESSION gets lost in all of this fake goodness that is really crappy badness.....kids have it right when they start singing and banging around on stuff...they don't have any skill or much life experience....but they still have that primal urge to creativity that gets squeezed out of us as we get older.....that is for me the great thing about the father....no matter how much of an asshole he was....he sure as fuck believed in the creative power of his daughters.....I don't know about you but my parents discouraged me from playing guitar as not being practical....they couldn't see any use for creativity....especiallly the weird shit I was getting into....it scared them!....real creativity is often really weird and not house trained....it freaks parents out.

So what is great about this is that these girls did something.....most kids just do all the shit that is culturally sanctioned....and even when they do get into "rebellious" stuff it is usually so fraught with rules as to no longer be creative....like when I was a kid punk was an important thing....and I had a friend who had to do everything right according to the rules of punk....his hair had to be a certain way....he had to have the right patches on his leather jacket, etc......it all just gets lame...being cool is lame and uncreative.

So these girls did something that was not cool....they wrote their own songs that don't really sound like the hit songs of the day....they recorded...they performed.....and I am sure very few people were telling them it was any good.....but they made something happen that was creative and weird and their own. That is the beauty of it.....it would be a better world if there were a "Shaggs" in every basement of every house in every identical subdivision all across the U.S....and Britain too, as I notice you are from there, and I can't claim to understand that society in the way I do the U.S.

I love how "Philosophy of the World" is #5 in Kurt Cobains favorite albums right after The Vaselines who are another favorite of mine....two teenagers from nowhere that DID IT THEMSELVES! Cobain had some taste in music.

"It's so obviously the real thing. I heard this one live song - a Carpenters song, maybe? - where they must have been playing a day centre, and the screams in the background are louder than the music. The Shaggs are another archetypal K band."
- Kurt Cobain -

http://www.angelfire.com/rock3/nirvana81/kurttop.htm

In Journals, Kurt Cobain made a list of his Top 50 albums. These 50 are :

* 50. Raping a Slave - Swans
* 49. Mazzy Star - Mazzy Star
* 48. Over the Edge - Wipers
* 47. Youth of America - Wipers
* 46. Is This Real? - Wipers
* 45. The Man Who Sold the World - David Bowie
* 44. Beach Party - Marine Girls
* 43. Takes a Nation of Millions - Public Enemy
* 42. Flowers of Romance - Pil
* 41. The Record - Fear
* 40. Damaged - Black Flag
* 39. Locust Abortion Technician - Butthole Surfers
* 38. We are those who Ache Amorous Love - Half Japanese
* 37. Meet the Beatles - Beatles
* 36. Generic Flipper - Flipper
* 35. Yip Jump Music - Daniel Johnston
* 34. Superfuzz Bigmuff - Mudhoney
* 33. Last Sessions Vol 1 - Leadbelly
* 32. Tales of Terror - Tales of Terror
* 31. Jamboree - Beat Happening
* 30. Rites of Spring - Rites of Spring
* 29. Void/Faith EP - Void/Faith
* 28. Combat Rock - Clash
* 27. Typical Girls - Slits
* 26. Burning Farm Cassette - Shonen Knife
* 25. Green - R.E.M.
* 24. What is This? - Punk Comp California
* 23. Rocks - Aerosmith
* 22. Colossal Youth - Young Marble Giants
* 21. Raincoats LP - Raincoats
* 20. Anything by: - Kleenex
* 19. Know Your Product - The Saints
* 18. Get the Knack - The Knack
* 17. Daydream Nation - Sonic Youth
* 16. Dry - P.J. Harvey
* 15. It's only Right and Natural - Frogs
* 14. Nevermind the Bollocks - Sex Pistols
* 13. Entertainment - Gang of Four
* 12. Rock for Light - Bad Brains
* 11. My War - Black Flag
* 10. Pee Pee the Sailor - Butthole Surfers
* 09. 1st EP - Saccharin Trust
* 08. 1st EP - Scratch Acid
* 07. Millions of Dead Cops - M.D.C.
* 06. Land Shark - Fang
* 05. Philosophy of the World - Shaggs
* 04. Sun Of A Gun - the Vaselines
* 03. POD - The Breeders
* 02. Surfer Rosa - Pixies
* 01. Raw Power - Iggy & The Stooges

dorfmeister wrote:

monkeydancer wrote:I always took the father sort of forcing them in to it as a bit of a sinister thing which makes me feel weird about it all, adds a creepy vibe to the music for me.

I don't really get it when people go on about stuff like in that article, like they're taking everything too seriously. Plus all the message and attitude in the world doesn't magically make a bad song a good song. It might make it a cool statement or whatever but I still won't want to listen to it, which is what really counts (imo).

Yes.....but I think the thing that for Lester Bangs is so crucial is the idea of people taking it upon themselves to do their own creative thing, whatever that might be, and that is important.

We live in a culture that is really fucking judgemental and focused around quality...and the model of quality isn't based on having something interesting to say....it is based on some superficial idea of being able to play ones instrument....or to have the technology to make it sound like you can play your instrument....autotune, loops, midi, click tracks, etc.....unfortunately for most the crucial idea of SELF-EXPRESSION gets lost in all of this fake goodness that is really crappy badness.....kids have it right when they start singing and banging around on stuff...they don't have any skill or much life experience....but they still have that primal urge to creativity that gets squeezed out of us as we get older.....that is for me the great thing about the father....no matter how much of an asshole he was....he sure as fuck believed in the creative power of his daughters.....I don't know about you but my parents discouraged me from playing guitar as not being practical....they couldn't see any use for creativity....especiallly the weird shit I was getting into....it scared them!....real creativity is often really weird and not house trained....it freaks parents out.

So what is great about this is that these girls did something.....most kids just do all the shit that is culturally sanctioned....and even when they do get into "rebellious" stuff it is usually so fraught with rules as to no longer be creative....like when I was a kid punk was an important thing....and I had a friend who had to do everything right according to the rules of punk....his hair had to be a certain way....he had to have the right patches on his leather jacket, etc......it all just gets lame...being cool is lame and uncreative.

So these girls did something that was not cool....they wrote their own songs that don't really sound like the hit songs of the day....they recorded...they performed.....and I am sure very few people were telling them it was any good.....but they made something happen that was creative and weird and their own. That is the beauty of it.....it would be a better world if there were a "Shaggs" in every basement of every house in every identical subdivision all across the U.S....and Britain too, as I notice you are from there, and I can't claim to understand that society in the way I do the U.S.

I think I was being too negative about the article itself, because I really do agree with that, everything good started from doing something in a way some people said was "wrong" and it's important to just do whatever the hell you think is cool because that's what creative expression is about, and because it's fun. The 'punk' thing really confuses me, because the way I see it the punk ideal is doing what you want to do and fuck everybody else, not a rulebook for acceptable 'punk' songwriting and fashion.

When I say I don't like listening to it, I'm not putting down what they did, I'm just saying it's not my taste. Like the Beatles: I don't really like listening to much of their stuff, but I can acknowledge the influence it had on other people.

dorfmeister wrote: They just put it out there - - - it may appear naive, inept, misguided, even stupid, but there is a fragile tenuous beauty in it for those who are able to actually listen to the music and sense the hopes, dreams, and excitement of these girls as they wrote their songs, played them, and imagined people enjoying the music they had made....they made their own music....they didn't just passively sit by and let others make music ....they did it themselves....it is not cool...it is not skilled....but they went with and worked with what they could do.....and it has an unexpected magic too it that transcends the ineptitude.

I can respect this but I still don't like listening to them. To me they sound like what kids do when they are given a instrument and left to do their own thing and they have a spark of creativity. I've come across this a few times and the "song structure" is usually similar to this. Some times it is rather cool. But really this is not my cup of tea... personally I would rather listen to straight up noise but I can say that about a LOT of commercial stuff.. on the other hand yes I would rather listen to The Shaggs then the Spice Girls.