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So i've been trying to find out whether the Yamaha SPX90 and Alesis Midiverbs have really bad buffers/level problems. I [had] a nanoverb and I couldn't get it to sound good in my chain, and I didn't want to really use a true bypass loop. A boss footswitch was not useable, plus trying to get the volume set right without overloading it was a pain.

I'm looking for infinite reverb (or near infinte), modulated verbs (at least the trails on the plate settings), and of course reverse. Nanoverb did all of this and it also sounded pretty decent

Any suggestions? I know there's a ton of threads out there dedicated to this, but i'm particularly concerned about huge volume drops and really bad buffers. How do the EHX Cathedrals compare to rack verbs? I'm guessing the trails won't mod as nice as any rack.

I have an SPX90 (and a GEP50, which is an SPX90 with a raft of brootal digital guitar distortion settings added) and a MidiVerb II. i really can't compare them to the Nanoverb or Cathedral because i haven't played them. the SPX is clear but a bit noisy. the MV II is a bit dark but sounds beautiful. both of them are way more transparent than a RV-3. they seem pretty transparent when the individual units are bypassed, though i typically bypass the entire rack from my board with an A/B looper. BTW from what i've read the MV II has a different chip and sounds better than the MV III/IV. why not try the SPX and MV both? they each do reverse reverb things the other won't, and in my area you can get them used for $50 apiece.

a REALLY cool thing you can do if you have a GEP50 and an SPX90 is run the SPX90 in the GEP's effects loop; by doing this you can combine the Yamaha "Early Reflection" reverb settings with the regular reverbs and get plate and hall reverbs to die for.

dubkitty wrote:I have an SPX90 (and a GEP50, which is an SPX90 with a raft of brootal digital guitar distortion settings added) and a MidiVerb II. i really can't compare them to the Nanoverb or Cathedral because i haven't played them. the SPX is clear but a bit noisy. the MV II is a bit dark but sounds beautiful. both of them are way more transparent than a RV-3. they seem pretty transparent when the individual units are bypassed, though i typically bypass the entire rack from my board with an A/B looper. BTW from what i've read the MV II has a different chip and sounds better than the MV III/IV. why not try the SPX and MV both? they each do reverse reverb things the other won't, and in my area you can get them used for $50 apiece.

a REALLY cool thing you can do if you have a GEP50 and an SPX90 is run the SPX90 in the GEP's effects loop; by doing this you can combine the Yamaha "Early Reflection" reverb settings with the regular reverbs and get plate and hall reverbs to die for.

Thanks for the info . Noise isn't too much of a concern, but either way I would only use a rack reverb for the extreme settings so it seems like i would have no choice but to either use a loop pedal or a/b I'll be on the look out for both units. Have you tried the midiverb 4? I'm curious what the differences are between II and IV.

Anyone have a Cathedral they can tell me about? I'm mostly interested in reverse and infinite plate

bump. edited the main post.

I use a microverb 4 and experience the level problems you speak of, I may try putting it in a TB loop because it can make a lot of background hiss.

However, for infinite verb along with 29358243950 other things...awesome for the small amount dropped on it. Think I got it for like $45.

Rygot wrote:I use a microverb 4 and experience the level problems you speak of, I may try putting it in a TB loop because it can make a lot of background hiss.

However, for infinite verb along with 29358243950 other things...awesome for the small amount dropped on it. Think I got it for like $45.

nooooooooooo (to the level problem)

I can't find one locally, and everything on ebay is on average 120-150$

edit: I just noticed you were talking about the microverb (silly me). The nanoverb is very similar, so that would make sense!

i use a yamaha magicstomp. it has everything the spx90 has and way more. i mainly use it for reverb. its awesome, but it does have a totally shitty buffer. i just keep it in a loop. sorry this doesnt answer your question.

from what i've seen the MidiVerb II uses a different processor to the III/IV, and is held to sound better, more "organic," etc. the most notable MidiVerb users i'm aware of nowadays, e.g. Kevin Shields and Tommy Emmanuel, use the MV II. it's such an important part of TE's live sound that he carries a spare in his rack case.

the other thing i should have mentioned is ease of use and/vs. adjustability. the MidiVerb II only runs its preset patches, and your only options are MIX and LEVEL; it includes literally dozens of reverbs/echoes with set delay times, and if you want a 90ms delay you have to select a program number. The Yamaha allows you to tweak multiple parameters and save your edited settings to device memory as new presets.

BuMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

help! found this thread while researching the dreaded volume drop with the Yamaha GEP50. Just picked one up to go along with my Midiverb II and wow, the volume drop is just too much. I mean, very significant. Hoping to get some advice and potential fixes from those of you who have been using it or the SPX for awhile.

I don't get the crazy noise I've read about, standard noise level, nothing I can't live with. However, the volume drop is to the point of tone sucking. It's like my pedals are getting enough signal and sound weak. my overdrives and distortions lack the clarity and tone when the GEP is in the Chain. Both the Midiverb and GEP50 are instrument level in and out, so i would think the pedals would be cool with the signal from the GEP50. But my pedals sound "lacking" with the GEP50.

It's killing me as I've wanted one of these forever, yes I'm a big mbv fan, and I have really dialed in my GEP with some reverbs I don't want to let go of.

would a boost or buffer in the front, or back help? Anything else any of you have discovered to get the signal level up?

Here is my basic set up....

Guitar --> Midiverb II --> GEP50 --> Stereo Pan Pedal --> memory man --> stereo out to 2 amps w/various OD's and distortions on each channel

Going to be honest with you, I love older rack units for cheap bang for the buck and sounds that people never really used well back in their prime.

That said, if I run them first in my chain and try to insert pedals after, they generally don't sound too hot. They just weren't built for that.

If I want a pedal-then-rack I have no issue with the old ART, Alesis, Boss and Roland rack stuff, very little with the Digitech stuff from the Stone Age (where the problem is the output is hotter than sin, not quiet), etc. in my racks. From what I remember of my Yamaha REX-50 (table-top SPX90), it didn't like pedals after it either.

If I want rack then pedal, most of it just doesn't sound that hot. Difference in impedance, buffers, gremlins, 80s dirty oversped LSD hair metal flashbacks, who knows.

Instrument level in and out on some of the racks is there so you can plug into the front of an amp, not generally to put more pedals after them. There's a reason most rack units have dialable in/out levels, and it's to match the wildly inconsistent what's going in and out of them and the units around them.

Pedals don't to the same level and depth and breadth, and that may be the problem.

Only real suggestion I have is to try a small mixer and see if that solves your problem; you may be able to get the signals to where the units want to work better and make some adjustments to frequencies as well.

RRV-10 and an RPS-10

you're welcome

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYXJ3sYx6uQ[/youtube]

Update to my last post:

I put my Boss TU2 in between my guitar and the rack units then my pedal board and now its great.

read about some rack units with weak buffers work better with a buffered effect running before them. In my case at least, this is true. Volume is up and my pedals are back to their normal tones.

I used my tuner, but any buffered pedal should do. Boss uses good buffers, so any boss pedal should do the trick.

I have an alesis midiverb 4 and it's loud as fuck in my signal chain, I've never used it live for the same reason. I guess it'd be okay for studio work to fulfill the roles you're talking about but as for live use it's never really worked well for me.

i've found that i have to arrange my rack units in particular order so i can match the input/output dBu levels; i have the Yamahas first and the MV II at the end. i always place the rack after the pedal board, because most of my use of the units is for various reverbs and modulation.

wtf is this guy talking about???????? crispy crittered his foot?