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Maybe, I don't know. I hope you are right about that.

I would think the US, which also goes for Sweden or the Netherlands, needs a real alternative to the offered politics. It isn't that I am against incremental change or anthing like that, I just believe that the economic forces that operate at the side of the political forces move so much faster and are so much more ruthless than anything politics can muster means that whatever positive political incremental change is eclipsed by the social and economical change that happens simultaneously.

But I am part of a long and proud tradition of socialists getting to eat shit whenever we decide to care about anything

This is a perennial (well quadrennial) discussion.

Change.

Trump is clearly more of a force for change than Biden, but his brand of shambolic change wasn't doing anybody any good but the parasites that skim the cream from the financial markets and the bastards that rejoice in the cover of deregulation.

How is it not clear that considered change in this country is a laughable mirage?

So in a little more than a week we get to eat a shit sandwich, which, welcome to the world, and less than most of the world wishes on us....

Pretty sure I won't live to see the kind of change in this country that actually betters the lot of the whatever % wallowing in the trough, let alone takes a real step toward progressive power sharing.

The prevailing political parties in this country are a monstrosity? How far back do you have to go before you find an active alternative party that wasn't a sad, wet little fart? I'll wait....

It's not written in our constitution, it's written in our character, and our character is stunted if not blighted.

Yes, the second debate was a lie. Americans don't discuss our differences, we shout over each other and turn our backs.

To be perfectly clear: I have not had a single moment of doubt about who I will vote for.

Another swing on the merry-go-round...and come November 4th? I'll settle for not getting winged in the deathole by some green-toothed dipshit with an AR.

Sorry for the rant. I'm sick and waiting for covid test results and not particularly impressed with my fellow 'mericans.

Biden’s been seeking the presidency since the 80s. Back then, the median Dem senator was to the right of Joe Manchin, the furthest right Dem senator today. Biden was shaped by his times. He’s gotten better, but believe me, I understand the desire for better than this.

I have a bit of hope that Biden’s long held belief that he is a man of destiny can be harnessed for some real progressive change that would have been too risky for a guy who was seeking office. Think of LBJ apart from Vietnam—his presidency was more bold and consequential (Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Medicare, etc.) than you would have expected from his congressional career. (I saw someone credibly argue that any plausible president of the era would have done as bad or worse on Vietnam, though still, it’s an asterisk big enough to block out most of his legacy.) A Biden presidency is still guaranteed to be too little for me. But I’m well into middle age, so a “too little improvement” presidency is well above par for my lifetime.

Dandolin and Gone Fission make some good points.

Honestly, I think Biden may've been a little more open to progressive agendas had he not been handed the daunting task of having to repair all of the damage Trump's done.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking though.

Chankgeez wrote:Honestly, I think Biden may've been a little more open to progressive agendas had he not been handed the daunting task of having to repair all of the damage Trump's done.

I don't agree. I think without trump pushing the actual soul of the right in everyones face to see what it is he would be more to dump any progressiveness. I think the one good thing that MIGHT come out of this is it might push the majority to actual middle vs middle right... which is still not good enough, but it's a start... But.. was trump enough to scare everyone straight or will we have another billionaire nazi step out of the shadows?

Chankgeez wrote:Maybe that's just wishful thinking though.

There is that too... too many dumb people like my boss think the big crash will be sooner with Biden than with trump so they are scared of non-trump

I’m not voting for Biden. There’s no way in hell. I probably will not vote this term.

Can't say I blame you. Let's just hope most voters find him more likable than the 2016 Democratic candidate.

My two €-cents: if you decide not to vote, then please don't rant about another four years under Trump if that's the outcome of the election.

Chankgeez wrote:Can't say I blame you. Let's just hope most voters find him more likable than the 2016 Democratic candidate.

It's a tough one. Not vote for him and you get day glow hitler again / but / we all vote for him and they win for doing nothing and standing for nothing and being completely out of touch with the times and technology [what's a email?, what are those hacker people?, what's an e-currency?, what app-based employment? where are my fucking denchers!?!??!?!?!!?!?!?!? ]... so why would they change?

Guess the dems never watched this movie as they should have.....
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rdpJztS28A[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYaq3mpTksU[/youtube]

legostocracy

Gone Fission wrote:Biden’s been seeking the presidency since the 80s. Back then, the median Dem senator was to the right of Joe Manchin, the furthest right Dem senator today. Biden was shaped by his times. He’s gotten better, but believe me, I understand the desire for better than this.

This is... really not true at all. When Biden entered the Senate, Ted Kennedy and others were pushing nationalized healthcare. Democrats (and some Republicans) had been talking about abolishing the CIA since Kennedy. A universal basic income was a serious consideration even under Nixon.

By the time Biden is running for President, Jesse Jackson runs as strong a Presidential campaign in 1988 as Sanders in 2020 - and was arguably further to the left.

Biden sat to the right of the party (and well to the right of Democratic voters) his entire Senate career.

If he governs as a moderate, it will be an absolute disaster - this is how you wind up with a Trump. Obama's failure to act decisively in 2009-10 to improve the material conditions of Americans outside the top 5% is turned into the 2010 midterm that set up the half-decade of gridlock that swayed enough people into voting for change, any kind of change that we got a TV show host with tertiary syphilis.

Biden would be taking office in conditions that make 2009 post-crash look heavenly - pursuing austerity and compromise with the GOP ghouls in the Senate will make for a replay of 2010 and in 2024 we're getting someone even worse than Trump. Just as much a fascist but less senile and less apt to talk on camera about committing sexual assault.

No. Fuck no. Get out.

Pepe wrote:My two €-cents: if you decide not to vote, then please don't rant about another four years under Trump if that's the outcome of the election.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKxFY7-Ayjw[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKxFY7-Ayjw