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Seance wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:There's nothing on your laptop stopping you from finishing a draft, saving it, then creating a separate revision. Clippy isn't going to pop out of the screen and punch you in the nose.

Right. And a piece of paper with ink on it allows you to instantly see all the various drafts all at once at a single glance.

I'm not sure why I need to say this again but as I pointed out earlier I was never at any time disagreeing with your point that writing with physical media is different mentally to writing on a computer.

What I said was, the thing I quoted above is not a good argument against using computers because computers can do this.

You're now bringing up entirely different points that dos and I were never disputing because we were not having the argument you think we were having.

coldbrightsunlight wrote:

Seance wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:There's nothing on your laptop stopping you from finishing a draft, saving it, then creating a separate revision. Clippy isn't going to pop out of the screen and punch you in the nose.

Right. And a piece of paper with ink on it allows you to instantly see all the various drafts all at once at a single glance.

I'm not sure why I need to say this again but as I pointed out earlier I was never at any time disagreeing with your point that writing with physical media is different mentally to writing on a computer.

What I said was, the thing I quoted above is not a good argument against using computers because computers can do this.

You're now bringing up entirely different points that dos and I were never disputing because we were not having the argument you think we were having.

I thought we were having a conversation and not an argument.

In any event, computers are capable of lots of things and yet people sometimes choose not to use them.
Ableton Live versus pedals or using actually reel-to-reel tape delays is a matter of price, access, and taste.

Yes. Apologies if this wasn't clear, I thought it was, but I was only ever responding to your specific points re the capabilities of computers with viewing multiple drafts, never engaging in the wider conversation.

About which my view is "what works for you is good"

Seance wrote: My initial point was about planned obsolescence. After the grid goes down this thread will be just a dim memory.
It wont' exist. There will be no trace. The electrons that used to constitute 0s and 1s will still exist, but their
order will retain no meaning outside of standard electron behavior.

If the grid goes down we have about 3 days before society breaks down, and about 2 weeks until full collapse. Your papers will be equally worthless in the new age.

codetocontra wrote:

Seance wrote: My initial point was about planned obsolescence. After the grid goes down this thread will be just a dim memory.
It wont' exist. There will be no trace. The electrons that used to constitute 0s and 1s will still exist, but their
order will retain no meaning outside of standard electron behavior.

If the grid goes down we have about 3 days before society breaks down, and about 2 weeks until full collapse. Your papers will be equally worthless in the new age.

Empires and societies have already collapsed multiple times in history.
For many of which there are written records. So the track record of
books surviving societal collapse is pretty good. Not perfect. But not nothing.

coldbrightsunlight wrote:Yes. Apologies if this wasn't clear, I thought it was, but I was only ever responding to your specific points re the capabilities of computers with viewing multiple drafts, never engaging in the wider conversation.

About which my view is "what works for you is good"

My main point was just that while it would be crappy if an expensive pedal stopped working,
that doesn't mean you have to get rid of your guitar and amp and all your other pedals and buy
all-new replacements in order for your chain to be compatible with your replacement pedal.
But that happens with computers all the time.

And the cost of the computer system that makes Ableton Live usable also has to be considered.
What if you had to upgrade your computer operating system in order to make it more secure or
in order to use the internet... there would be at least some chance that you'd have to buy a
new version of Ableton Live.

Yeah ok. As I pointed out that's not what I was talking about. I see the point. Acoustic instruments are fun and I have a bunch of them.

I'm not really talking about acoustic instruments.
Inconuucl mentioned how it was weird people were throwing big bucks at glitch-loop pedals instead of using Ableton Live.
My point is that computers are an expense, and if you have to upgrade your computer operating system for some reason,
then you might have to buy a whole new version of Ableton Live, thus multiplying the expense. So in those terms a glitch-loop
pedal (even a pricey one) might seem like more of a bargain because if it stops working a person doesn't need to recalibrate
their entire system.

If YouTube disappears or deletes my stuff then it's gone for good, I don't save the MP3s I use to make the videos, or the videos themselves once they're uploaded, and at the beginning of the year I deleted all the raw wav files I used to make the recordings from, I'll probably do the same next year.

I quite like the idea of putting it online and then wiping everything, for some reason that amuses me (and freaked out a friend of mine who saves everything he's ever done, which also amused me).

I've even sold most of the pedals I made the recordings with !

Seance wrote:I'm not really talking about acoustic instruments.
Inconuucl mentioned how it was weird people were throwing big bucks at glitch-loop pedals instead of using Ableton Live.
My point is that computers are an expense, and if you have to upgrade your computer operating system for some reason,
then you might have to buy a whole new version of Ableton Live, thus multiplying the expense. So in those terms a glitch-loop
pedal (even a pricey one) might seem like more of a bargain because if it stops working a person doesn't need to recalibrate
their entire system.

Yup, but my job and life already demand me to do that, so it's not much of a "music expense" for me.

Seance wrote:

codetocontra wrote:

Seance wrote: My initial point was about planned obsolescence. After the grid goes down this thread will be just a dim memory.
It wont' exist. There will be no trace. The electrons that used to constitute 0s and 1s will still exist, but their
order will retain no meaning outside of standard electron behavior.

If the grid goes down we have about 3 days before society breaks down, and about 2 weeks until full collapse. Your papers will be equally worthless in the new age.

Empires and societies have already collapsed multiple times in history.
For many of which there are written records. So the track record of
books surviving societal collapse is pretty good. Not perfect. But not nothing.

To be fair, very few of those books were made of paper. And a lot of history and human knowledge has been and still is oral.
When it relates to the debate of software vs hardware, it's not a matter of which is more or less likely to fail, but whether you're capable of fixing the problem or adapting to it.

If your computer crashes, you still know how to write a book.
If the book burns, you still know how to talk.
If you can't talk, you can still use charades?
If you can't use charades, you're probably dead anyway.

42. PurPLL was finally released.

Seance wrote:

codetocontra wrote:

Seance wrote: My initial point was about planned obsolescence. After the grid goes down this thread will be just a dim memory.
It wont' exist. There will be no trace. The electrons that used to constitute 0s and 1s will still exist, but their
order will retain no meaning outside of standard electron behavior.

If the grid goes down we have about 3 days before society breaks down, and about 2 weeks until full collapse. Your papers will be equally worthless in the new age.

Empires and societies have already collapsed multiple times in history.
For many of which there are written records. So the track record of
books surviving societal collapse is pretty good. Not perfect. But not nothing.

Got a chisel to ensure my shitposting survives on cave walls.

I'm collecting caves, so that I've got enough shit to write on when the apocalypse comes.

goroth wrote:I'm collecting caves, so that I've got enough shit to write on when the apocalypse comes.

Nice, I've only got a beach and a stick, so it'll be more like snapchat for me.