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jwar wrote:No one will ever be fucking happy.

This is the bottom line

K2000 wrote:Mr. Black has soft, non-latching switches too.

I recall discussing this before, and people saying they need to feel the click. Really? You need more than the visual confirmation of an LED light and confirmation from hearing the effect with your ears?

Sorry to rant off topic, but this is something I feel strongly about, so when I noticed other people saying it too, I got a little hyped up.

There are relay boards available you can use to change a mechanical bypass into a soft switch version. Easy to install into lots of pedals.

jwar wrote:Listen those 75 cent stomps don't cost 75 cents. Where in the hell did you get that number from? If they are using good ones, try 3-5 dollars a piece. I've found them in bulk for 1 dollar a piece for shit ones, not for good ones.

Yeah, this is true.
It's funny because soft switches are actually cheaper than 3PDT's (they're under $2 from BLMS) and a relay circuit isn't gonna cost more than a dollar, especially if you're doing large parts orders.

I think the Dr. Sci/Cusack switches use a PIC for their switching.

Relay or electronic bypass is usually a little more expensive than mechanical bypass in small to medium quantities. The big benefits in going away from a mechanical switch come with the service costs. If you have to fix a pedal with a bad stomp switch you're looking at the cost of the switch and the labor to pull and replace it, plus potentially the shipping one or both ways.

We use very simple momentary footswitches that we get for a very decent price, and we handle all the heavy lifting using the same microcontroller that handles some other stuff on our boards. If you only need something that can fire a relay or an analog switch (74HC4053 is essentially a 3PDT in a 14-pin IC package) then you can get away with a VERY cheap PIC or AVR. We used to use the ATTiny45 in our pedals until we started putting a bigger / more capable chip in there to do additional tasks. Those Tinys or low-end PICs can be had for well under a buck in quantities.

A good relay might cost you $2-3 in small to medium qty, then you need a micro ($1) and some power supply stuff for it ($0.50) and a switch ($2.) Labor is soldering whatever parts to the board (14 or 20 pins) plus two flying leads for the switch. Figure $5.50 to maybe $7, all in. Parts costs higher, labor costs lower, and if anything fails it's likely to be a 50 cent regulator or a $2 relay.

A good mechanical switch (a GOOD one) will cost you more like $4 in the same quantities, then you need to either land 8 or 9 flying leads or use a wiring board and ribbon cable. If you never mess up and wreck a switch by overheating it you might save a little money by hand-wiring but very few folks are going to bother with that in a 100pc. run. Parts cost lower, labor costs higher, and you incur the same costs every time a switch fails.

I see no appeal in the mechanical switch. I'll never use 'em again.

K2000 wrote:Mr. Black has soft, non-latching switches too.

I recall discussing this before, and people saying they need to feel the click. Really? You need more than the visual confirmation of an LED light and confirmation from hearing the effect with your ears?

Sorry to rant off topic, but this is something I feel strongly about, so when I noticed other people saying it too, I got a little hyped up.

I understand your position completely. From a builder standpoint however, they are always left with a decision. Make person A happy or person B. You can't make them both happy unfortunately. They both want different things. I prefer the click on some, and not so much on other. I think the switches I like the most if I actually care to get into that is the ones Darkglass has and Boss. They are the most well made out of any switches I've ever used. I'm talking the DD series switches. Those things are fucking amazing. They both use similar technology though.

whoismarykelly wrote: There are relay boards available you can use to change a mechanical bypass into a soft switch version. Easy to install into lots of pedals.

This is true, however, for most pedals it would increase the footprint. So folks would be mad about the added size. It's a give and take situation. It's not that much room, but in some pedals, which are crammed to the gills, it could literally jump it up another box size.

JonnyAngle wrote:

jwar wrote:No one will ever be fucking happy.

This is the bottom line

I know it man! People want what they want and that's awesome! Keeps us and builders in business. What's not awesome is explaining why what they want won't work and hoping they understand, because they almost never do.

Stomp these flaming buttons!

They apparently debuted it yesterday NEED MOAR DEETZ

Yes please.

New video up on FB ~20hrs ago: http://www.facebook.com/RedPandaLab/vid ... 977390760/

Sounds pretty damn rad in action. Seems like it functions a lot like the Outward with the addition of a smooth tape speed control.

xo

Google cuts to the chase:

I drove up to NYC for the Fear the Riff expo yesterday and Red Panda had a nearly-finished prototype with graphics at their booth that was fantastic. I didn't get a pic but it had controls for blend, sample speed (smooth from full forward to tape stop and full reverse), time stretch without altering pitch, a knob for pitch shift from +1 octave to -1 octave in semitone steps, and randomness. It also had switches for how the buffer operates which allowed for regular play, overdubbing, and ping pong play. Then the bypass and hold switches could be set for either latching or momentary. It was a TON of functionality in one pedal and after playing it for 5 minutes its the thing Im most excited about for 2018. The lady at their booth that builds everything said it should be done for NAMM but it worked perfectly to me yesterday. The available sounds were an amalgamation of Cooper Outward, Hexe revolver DX, and Count to 5. All in one pedal and all working at the same time. It was pretty spectacular.

Solid review, I can't wait for this to finally be released!

Seems intriguing. I think I prefer my timestretch to alter pitch. But different ditches for different glitches.