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ChetMagongalo wrote:

Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. wrote:i think the crazy looper these ppl are looking for does exist. its called the octatrack and its made by elektron.

couldn't he buy this and like a midi controller with stomp pedals and be set?

I think to be able to get the full value out of an octatrack you do need to use it as a tabletop item. They sure want a lot of features to be quickly an easily and intuitively controllable with your feet. It does seem like they want an octatrak or similar though, but there is a reason that technologies like that are geared towards edm producers. Utilizing a deep samplers full functionality and playing guitar at the same time would be super challenging, the octatrak is an instrument in its own right.

On the other hand I have been working a Bastl MicroGranny 2 into my setup to do granular looping with my guitar and its really inspiring me so maybe the octatrak, once you get established using it as part of your guitar rig would be doable?

ApeLincoln wrote:I think to be able to get the full value out of an octatrack you do need to use it as a tabletop item. They sure want a lot of features to be quickly an easily and intuitively controllable with your feet. It does seem like they want an octatrak or similar though, but there is a reason that technologies like that are geared towards edm producers. Utilizing a deep samplers full functionality and playing guitar at the same time would be super challenging, the octatrak is an instrument in its own right.

i think you're totally right, but surely once you record and playback a sample your hands are free to then tweak the tabletop devices to manipulate deeper parameters though, i get the feeling that a lot of people don't actually know what they want to do and just assume that anything that might mean their hands aren't constantly on their guitar is a bad thing. all you would really need is a MIDI foot controller with start/record and stop functions to get started and everything else would be right there at your fingertips. being a guitarist doesn't mean you have to constantly be 'playing guitar', and if you look at at least a lot of mainstream effects-laden genres it's really a bit silly if people argue that recording a guitar phrase and playing the sampler thereafter is less 'authentic' than standing there swelling in notes with a volume pedal into a billion delays and reverbs and overdrives or whatever.

this isn't just a guitarist thing too, e.g. you can do fucking amazing stuff playing piano into effects pedals and barely any pianists do that, same with vocalists really. i think in general it's just healthiest to push people towards thinking outside the confines of any instrument role, genre, playing technique etc rather than encourage any sense of entitlement to having their individual 'needs' met concisely by manufacturers.

backwardsvoyager wrote:i think in general it's just healthiest to push people towards thinking outside the confines of any instrument role, genre, playing technique etc rather than encourage any sense of entitlement to having their individual 'needs' met concisely by manufacturers.

This is my big problem with that post, Octatrak/Modular "Synth" Setups/Computers are all capable of doing what Torn wants but they all have their limitations. It seems like in Torns/TGPs mind their biggest limitation is that these devices are outside the standard "Guitar Effect" format.

What they're looking for already exists in more than one format just not the stomp box format they are all familiar with. I get that the process of learning a new interface is a hassle but the level of complexity they expect out of that stompbox is going to be an intense learning experience anyways.

Don't get me wrong I think the musical ideas Torn and others in the thread are discussing are really cool and exciting I'm just not seeing the point of a company trying to cram an octatrak's functionality into a user interface for guitar players when the octatrak already exsists with a user interface specifically designed to make the most of the devices functionality.

Interesting notes on hands-off-guitar mangling: there's a Reeves Gabrels interview just up at Guitar Moderne where he talks about his early adoption of Korg Kaos Pad for guitar, which worked because he had Sustainer-equipped guitars. Also, Belew's noii.se Flux:Fx app has looper modes that similarly free up a hand for touch manipulation. So the fact that one is looping or at least sustaining already opens a hand at least some of the time. Torn mentioned in that thread that he already has hands off guitar I think like 30% of the time. Maybe more seems a prohibitive barrier. And with no flow, but in the same territory, it occurs that something like the Livid Guitar Wing could be handy for hand control and manipulation without being to far away from frets and strings.

For the Octatrak, how good is the MIDI implementation? MIDI implementation is another thing that has often taken a giant leap backwards, especially if the device maker never anticipated anyone would want to drive it by remote. I'm ignorant about the Octatrak, but this sort of thing is often a barrier.

backwardsvoyager wrote:i think in general it's just healthiest to push people towards thinking outside the confines of any instrument role, genre, playing technique etc rather than encourage any sense of entitlement to having their individual 'needs' met concisely by manufacturers.

/thread

This thread broke my brain.

D.o.S. wrote:I'll show you a third member.

TWHS, litter ully.