ilovefuzz.com

neonblack wrote:Creative bliss can be yours for just 11 grand and your dignity

See, this is also part of it. I have gear atrophy. I went hard and heavy for years man. You and I have similar patterns or did for awhile. Now I'm sitting on almost 90 pedals. 90! What the fuck do I need 90 pedals for??? I always say "just one more and I'll be done. This one will make the sounds I want". Sigh....so dumb.

neonblack wrote:Creative bliss can be yours for just 11 grand and your dignity

See, this is also part of it. I have gear atrophy. I went hard and heavy for years man. You and I have similar patterns or did for awhile. Now I'm sitting on almost 90 pedals. 90! What the fuck do I need 90 pedals for??? I always say "just one more and I'll be done. This one will make the sounds I want". Sigh....so dumb.

I can totally understand feeling like those pedals are over the top for your needs, but I guess I don't understand why you think that makes them overpriced. Those features do have worth. It sounds like your functional needs just run much cheaper than what you're used to believing your tastes are. That honestly sounds like a great problem to have. You probably have $20,000 sitting on a shelf in the form of things you don't really want.

greyscales wrote: Also instruments are often way more than the sum of their parts or even their sound. It's often about how they make you feel, and feelings can be hard to put a price on.

I totally agree. Dba's Echo Dream 2 is pretty expensive for a delay, but damn, it inspires you, it makes you wanna play. You pay for what's going to stimulate your creativity.

Very interesting thread. Regarding "the norm", 20 years ago, when someone who wasn't into music would ask me how much is the average price for a pedal, I would say roughly 80 bucks. Today the answer would be around 150/200... Difference also lies in the fact that now you have tons of pedals to choose from, below and above that figure.

How do you know when a pedal has a fair price tag? I would say that Catalin Bread, Montreal assembly, Origin effects, or Mooer (to name a few) offer coherent price tags for the pedal you get. But it's kind of hard to explain why. I think I paid 220 euros a few years ago for the CB semaphore, sophisticated trem with tap, great sound, that's not a shocking price, considering the pulsar was around 100 euros. Fair price is also a subtle balance between the various specs/brands/knobs...

By the way, maybe some can shed some light on this Klon Centaur mystery for me: I first heard of this brand when the hype went full swing. It was a very niche thing before that. But usually it takes decades for a product to reach absurd prices (Boss dm2), or/and it has to be a one-of-a-kind wonder (original ehx 16 second delay). But this Centaur thing happened in what, a ten-year-time? That's a new phenomenon too, that echoes the "what's the norm" issue. Moreover the Centaur is still in production today (bearing the "not responsible" sentence literally barring the box). I dont understand this.

Christophe wrote:
By the way, maybe some can shed some light on this Klon Centaur mystery for me: I first heard of this brand when the hype went full swing. It was a very niche thing before that. But usually it takes decades for a product to reach absurd prices (Boss dm2), or/and it has to be a one-of-a-kind wonder (original ehx 16 second delay). But this Centaur thing happened in what, a ten-year-time? That's a new phenomenon too, that echoes the "what's the norm" issue. Moreover the Centaur is still in production today (bearing the "not responsible" sentence literally barring the box). I dont understand this.

Bill Finnegan's a cryptic dude. That adds to the hype. I know he claims not to be part of the hype (he's wrong), that just adds more hype.

For normals pedals up to max 200$ is for me ok. Especially from "boutique builders".
Of course I have also boxes which were more expensive than that limit (i.e. Strymon Timeline (which I got secondhand), AMT SS20, Pigtronix Infinity..), but with these the features were priority over the price.
Of corse secondhand pedals are always welcome, when possible.

$harkToootth wrote:There's probably a guy out there with one of those who looks at the pedal board thread and goes "What a bunch of assholes"
Just like there's probably a crusty hoping trains and browsing this thread on his mobile, thinking "What a bunch of assholes"
And a guy in Rail Yard security beating up the crusty and thinking "What an asshole"
And his boss asks if he wants to work some overtime. He says "Yes thanks. I'm saving up to buy my this awesome fuzz pedal. It's $500 so I could use the money"
And he goes home...goes on ILF sees the PRS I just posted and thinks "What an asshole"

Director's Cut Ending:

NSFW: show

And then his wife calls him up from the basement saying, "Stop looking at ILF again you asshole! Come upstairs and get your due."
From being in a position of authority all day, the Rail Yard Guard has a preference for pegging. His wife cries again "You get on up here so I wreck your asshole you asshole!"

That's what it's all about, Alfie.

$harkToootth wrote:There's probably a guy out there with one of those who looks at the pedal board thread and goes "What a bunch of assholes"
Just like there's probably a crusty hoping trains and browsing this thread on his mobile, thinking "What a bunch of assholes"
And a guy in Rail Yard security beating up the crusty and thinking "What an asshole"
And his boss asks if he wants to work some overtime. He says "Yes thanks. I'm saving up to buy my this awesome fuzz pedal. It's $500 so I could use the money"
And he goes home...goes on ILF sees the PRS I just posted and thinks "What an asshole"

Director's Cut Ending:

NSFW: show

And then his wife calls him up from the basement saying, "Stop looking at ILF again you asshole! Come upstairs and get your due."
From being in a position of authority all day, the Rail Yard Guard has a preference for pegging. His wife cries again "You get on up here so I wreck your asshole you asshole!"

Christophe wrote:

greyscales wrote: Also instruments are often way more than the sum of their parts or even their sound. It's often about how they make you feel, and feelings can be hard to put a price on.

I totally agree. Dba's Echo Dream 2 is pretty expensive for a delay, but damn, it inspires you, it makes you wanna play. You pay for what's going to stimulate your creativity.

Very interesting thread. Regarding "the norm", 20 years ago, when someone who wasn't into music would ask me how much is the average price for a pedal, I would say roughly 80 bucks. Today the answer would be around 150/200... Difference also lies in the fact that now you have tons of pedals to choose from, below and above that figure.

How do you know when a pedal has a fair price tag? I would say that Catalin Bread, Montreal assembly, Origin effects, or Mooer (to name a few) offer coherent price tags for the pedal you get. But it's kind of hard to explain why. I think I paid 220 euros a few years ago for the CB semaphore, sophisticated trem with tap, great sound, that's not a shocking price, considering the pulsar was around 100 euros. Fair price is also a subtle balance between the various specs/brands/knobs...

By the way, maybe some can shed some light on this Klon Centaur mystery for me: I first heard of this brand when the hype went full swing. It was a very niche thing before that. But usually it takes decades for a product to reach absurd prices (Boss dm2), or/and it has to be a one-of-a-kind wonder (original ehx 16 second delay). But this Centaur thing happened in what, a ten-year-time? That's a new phenomenon too, that echoes the "what's the norm" issue. Moreover the Centaur is still in production today (bearing the "not responsible" sentence literally barring the box). I dont understand this.

Think Chank kinda nailed the Klon question... Three different circuit versions, limited numbers on 1 (or is it 2?) of them, quit making them except as "gifts for friends who need cash", then the whole JHS debacle, and the KTR drama (issues with the original manufacturer, "not the right diodes", SMT parts)... Mostly the decisions of BF leading to shortage of original product and adding a couple villains along the way to keep purists beating the war drums. It seems like it happens these days anytime a company goes under (or discontinues a model) and one of the pedals is on "someone's" board. Or used on an album. Prescription Electronics comes to mind.

I think "fair" prices are just relative to what you think of the pedal/company.... Do I think it is "fair" to charge a ton of money for pedals just because you have high overhead due to needing to be in a trendy area of a city for inspiration? Not really. I'll gladly pay the going rate to a guy who builds everything himself and seems like a cool person. Organic fair trade resistors are a gray area.

calfzilla wrote: Prescription Electronics comes to mind.

Prescription Electronics slogged on for years without much fanfare. Jack Brossart never adapted to the modern market. Sure, he was one of the first "boutique" pedal companies and made a good, long run of it. Never adopted modern marketing techniques though. Still sold a lot of pedals. Probably nowhere near the amount he could've if he'd had wider recognition while he was still building.

His pedals are partly desirable now because people who knew how good they were before are still using 'em in high profile settings.

The Experience was my first "boutique" pedal.

Chankgeez wrote:

calfzilla wrote: Prescription Electronics comes to mind.

Prescription Electronics slogged on for years without much fanfare. Jack Brossart never adapted to the modern market. Sure, he was one of the first "boutique" pedal companies and made a good, long run of it. Never adopted modern marketing techniques though. Still sold a lot of pedals. Probably nowhere near the amount he could've if he'd had wider recognition while he was still building.

His pedals are partly desirable now because people who knew how good they were before are still using 'em in high profile settings.

The Experience was my first "boutique" pedal.

Yup. Some personal issues thrown in there to make sure the company stayed done.

This still happens with companies currently in business. Like the ill-fated hardiwre line from Digitech. Cut for poor sales, now used prices have gone up (especially for the supernatural ) because people kind of realize that they were actually pretty good pedals at a good price.

bennroe wrote:I can totally understand feeling like those pedals are over the top for your needs, but I guess I don't understand why you think that makes them overpriced. Those features do have worth. It sounds like your functional needs just run much cheaper than what you're used to believing your tastes are. That honestly sounds like a great problem to have. You probably have $20,000 sitting on a shelf in the form of things you don't really want.

I wouldn't say that I don't understand the pricing on those pedals as much as I don't see the value in some of them. The Boss pedals, the Source Audio (and similar), I definitely see the value. Ones that have some features that are great but are harder to navigate, yet cost more money, I don't. If I'm going to pay 400 plus dollars for something, I want it to be intuitive enough for me to not have to read a manual 80 times to understand. LOL. It's probably a me issue, which is fine, I was just trying to dialogue.

I do think my functional needs and wants are going towards simpler lately. Give me knobs all day, but they better make fucking sense and do something I can actually hear or feel.

Love the pedal industry for sure, just getting a little burned out on things.

calfzilla wrote:ike the ill-fated hardiwre line from Digitech. Cut for poor sales, now used prices have gone up (especially for the supernatural ) because people kind of realize that they were actually pretty good pedals at a good price.

This is a great example. I remember when a local store was blowing out the Hardwire RV-7s for like €80 or 90 brand new in box, and I bought one as my first reverb pedal (still use it to this day), then later the last (ex demo) models were even going out the door at that same store for €60. Such low blow out prices are rare in Europe, shit like that Boneshaker purge usually only happens in the US. Now I see them RV-7s on Reverb.com for like $150 second hand which is crazy, even though it obviously is a good pedal.

I see some Hardwire Supernatural's for around 120-130. What was the going rate before? Doesn't seem too bad?

The second hand market can be obscenely stupid though.

Prescription Electronics, like mentioned above, was ignored by so many before Jack folded. Now flippers are just pricing the shit as obscenely stupid prices. I refused to pay those prices for the Depth Charge, so I waited (twice), and have got two of them in the last two years for 150 or under. I knew someone out there would sell one for non asshole pricing. I know if I sell mine, I'll do the same. I'm not sure why I have the feeling about the Depth Charge and am ok reselling other things for more in some cases? I have an odd moral compass.

Jesus Was a Robot wrote:

bennroe wrote:I can totally understand feeling like those pedals are over the top for your needs, but I guess I don't understand why you think that makes them overpriced. Those features do have worth. It sounds like your functional needs just run much cheaper than what you're used to believing your tastes are. That honestly sounds like a great problem to have. You probably have $20,000 sitting on a shelf in the form of things you don't really want.

I wouldn't say that I don't understand the pricing on those pedals as much as I don't see the value in some of them. The Boss pedals, the Source Audio (and similar), I definitely see the value. Ones that have some features that are great but are harder to navigate, yet cost more money, I don't. If I'm going to pay 400 plus dollars for something, I want it to be intuitive enough for me to not have to read a manual 80 times to understand. LOL. It's probably a me issue, which is fine, I was just trying to dialogue.

I do think my functional needs and wants are going towards simpler lately. Give me knobs all day, but they better make fucking sense and do something I can actually hear or feel.

Love the pedal industry for sure, just getting a little burned out on things.

I'm with you on this.... I used to be all about toggles/rotaries for diodes and other things... Not so much anymore. If I keep going on my current trajectory, I'm going to be using old school MXR pedals with no stomp switch or Henretta Engineering pedals with only a stomp switch maybe switch to a Junior or Esquire and wire the pickup straight to the jack. Or just complete the full circle journey and land back at air guitar.