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Chankgeez wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:

BossMann73 wrote:Awesome thread so far and if the sentiments expressed here are any indication of a wider trend in music, perhaps we will be returning to better days. IMO, the last few years in music has been "hey, I just discovered this new noisemaker so I'm gonna bludgeon the world with it." But the most memorable songs have always had sparser production values and relied on good melody, structure and universal lyrics rather than assaulting the audience with noise.

The trend towards noise does make sense though given the younger generations (millenials) general world view of "if it feels good, do it" coupled with their general feeling that they "discovered" everything (that people were actually doing better in the 50's, 60's and 70's), but luckily the new crop of kids coming up behind them is substantially more conservative in their world view and I think personally that it will result in a better musical environment.

I'd actually say that noise has more in common in a couple of ways with rock and roll and punk and things like that which have a low financial barrier to entry as well as a low learning curve (as far as getting from idea to BzzzzzT BzzzzzzRT).

But, you know, that's could just be idealism coming from someone who likes and engages in the format. I do think the best noise tends to come from people who have more in common with the acoustic-electric and classical schools of minimalism than the more beat-oriented stuff.

I'd also like to add, these days, it's a noisy world we live in.

Sho muthafuckin is. Right now listening to jackhammers, ambulances, the highway and my upstairs neighbor clomping around.

Just a few random thoughts after reading this thread as I've also been struggling with this topic for a bit now..

I had been away from playing in bands for many years at this point and over that time my gear collection has doubled and probably then some. I def subscribe to the idle hands theory mentioned above where lack of a creative outlet feeds GAS.

So at this point I have 8 guitars and 50 pedals to choose from. What I tend to do when I'm writing material for myself I chain together maybe 2-4 effects from off the shelf, grab a guitar and see what I come up with. I have found that a new piece will almost always inspire at least a few new songs/song ideas..but a new piece is not necessary for inspiration

I've also recently got back into a band where I am the guitar player and not the primary songwriter (songwriter also plays guitar, mostly rhythm). My job is to come up with guitar parts that fit for someone else's songs and convey the mood/direction/sound he is going for. (or my interpretation of it) So what I've done is lay out like 20 or so boxes and rotate others in and out as I search for the right tools. This is where I'm finding that I have maybe a bit too much choice, especially if I hit a rut. The danger is relying too much on an effect itself instead of writing a really good part. Maybe if I didn't have the pedal shelf I'd be able to focus on creating more interesting parts, or at least more skillful vs lazy ? I dunno. Part of the reason I'm around is for my effects usage, but that was a much rarer commodity 15yrs ago when I started than it is today..

I also feel like what a lot of effects companies have done is take certain sounds, previously obtained by tweaking pedals or from certain patches on multi effects, and turn them into pedals unto themselves and boom you have something "new". All of the variations on a theme have gotten a bit extreme in some cases imo...

At the end of the day is anyone's creativity validated one way or the other by a minimilast approach, be it by choice or by financial limitations or whatever? I don't think so. For me, too much choice can be both beneficial and a hinderance. Just like with any approach to art, there probably is no right answer. I would add that, I do aspire to become more minimalisic when it comes to gear. In every other aspect of my life I tend to favor that approach, I'm just not a "having stuff" kind of person. I wish I could explain why I have no self control when it comes to gear

rustywire wrote: but art doesn't inherently create new order.

But new order creates Blue Monday.

Checkmate,art-theists

BossMann73 wrote: "hey, I just discovered this new noisemaker so I'm gonna bludgeon the world with it."

Oh, you mean King Gizzard?

D.o.S. wrote:

rustywire wrote: but art doesn't inherently create new order.

But new order creates Blue Monday.

Checkmate,art-theists

True faith, this one has

HIJACKING ALERT: I'm hijacking the hijacking back to the original topic for a moment.

The foundation of my sound is usually just 2 or 3 pedals - a fuzz pedal, and either reverb or delay, although sometimes both. Once in a blue moon I use a wah pedal.

Invisible Man wrote:Ok it's usually modulation (phase/flange/chorus) which I can get somehow and which don't seem too interesting to me anyway.

Modulation effects are interesting to me when other people use them, but I never know what to do with them. I only have two modulation pedals - a chorus and a vibe. I've dabbled in phase and came close to buying a flanger a couple of weeks ago, but again, I just don't know how they would fit in with my sound, so I can't justify spending the money. I haven't used the chorus pedal in years, and only occasionally play around with the vibe.

When it comes to dirt, however, it's a different story. I have an OD, a Rat, and 9 fuzz pedals. I know that's not much compared to most ILFers, but I'm not a professional musician, so now I'm asking myself why I need 9 fuzz pedals. And with 9 fuzz pedals and an amp with a distortion channel, why do I need the Rat?

But, I'm reluctant to get rid of any of my pedals, even the ones I never use. I always fall into the 'What if I need it someday for something currently unimaginable?' trap.

Despite all that, only one thing really constrains me - budget. Otherwise, I would have at least one of everything.

Reminder it is extra fun to use modulation as a filter, esp at slow sweep settings and at the other extreme in ringmod territory.
Such is how my PolyFlange typically stays set; parked comb filter or slow sweep flange, also slow/narrow chorus.
Either one stacks behind univibe for some interesting movement. It's very forgiving, makes ringing cleans sound wider & resonant without getting too bright or peaky. Mostly. Adding wah into the mix can suddenly get chaotic when flanging a treble-boosted fuzz at full throttle.
Not in a bad way. Do ya even saturate inductors d00d

BossMann73 wrote:The kids are seeing the 20 and early 30 year old completely shit the bed as a generation that they are rebelling.

This notion that millennials have "shit the bed as a generation" is pretty ludicrous, and always sounds really sad when regurgitated by some old dude. I'm really not sure why you're so bothered by what other people are doing. It's fine not to like noise or any other less traditional genre, but all your petty lamenting of the "good 'ol days" and your belittling of younger people for playing music outside of your comfort zone is really not as interesting or refreshing as you seem to think it is. It's okay for people (even most people) to like different things than you. It would be a way better use of your energy for you to take a stab at dissecting the reasons you're so frightened by cultural diversity.

That said, I think it's awesome how minimalist everyone in this thread either is, or wants to be, musically, but it's definitely not for me. I like layering effects and having a lot of tools at my disposal. I always have a gear-acquisition end-goal in sight, but I'm totally comfortable making changes to that goal or setting a new goal once I arrive at the previous one.

If there's one thing I've been resolute to avoid as I get older, it's the "kids these days" trap. Every generation is going to be freaked out by the next, but it's something to acknowledge and then put aside, or else you become a caricature. If you think your parents/the previous generation didn't think precisely that about you, you're absolutely delusional.

Memberberries. Pure and simple.

I'm right on the verge. I dunno... most of the millennials I know in Austin seem to have their shit together pretty well. Or more than I do, at least

I have no delusions about my generation [80s baby]. We're fucked up, whatever the label and classification is this week
At least I sure am. Still I try to do better, do right. I look around and say yikes aloud; see constant reminders how fortunate I've been in the big picture...between some considerably horrific and traumatic ordeals that weren't all fair and earned. But they were all important in their own way, to get me here today. I'm so thankful for what I have, when too much excess sits around unused it starts to weigh on me. Keeping it simple is more satisfying, at least from my perspective, so I tend to prefer having nicer things over many more things.
Records and tape acquisition notwithstanding...as I've had a hungry hippo appetite for physical media...for 14 years & counting

I don't know how I feel about the whole "it used to be so simple" thing. Back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's studio productions used a ton of gear because they needed it to create that magic. I mean bands had big ass amps on stage with a ton of heads, or big ass moog modulars, or like 2 organs and like a whole production. I mean psych and prog was super huge in that time frame and studio magic plus taking a whole freight truck worth of gear was just par for the course. If they had access to the amount of pedals we had, they probably would've used them just as well. Good song writers can have a lot or a little and still sound just right.

Either way I am a Millennial, but I grew up in a very poor blue collar immigrant home. I finally make 35,000 and don't have a college degree and I already feel like I made it. My Dad raised me and brother on the same amount working for a small steel mill so I definitely have a similar view as he regarding money and needing and wanting. Although for a long time I didn't and I bought all the stupid shit I could, I collected video games, I loved to buy synths, and pedals. Recently though I have been feeling a lot more inspired with just a dirt and a pitchshifter for guitar and a handful of small cheap synths with some flavor.

I definitely feel like I spend sometime thinking about how I can downsize just as much as working towards new gear. Its always battling having an equilibrium.

The communist in me loves the idea of being minimalist and shifting the focus towards creating good music as opposed to focusing on accumulating capital in the form of music gear.

Interesting thought @01010111. It's got me thinking.
When your gear collective is working together in harmony as something greater than the sum of its parts, does it not satisfy your inner commie?

I resist throwing away things, let alone selling them. Instruments and audio electronics inspire me to be creative and work toward personal growth & exploration; the better things sound, the more I want to hear what they can do. It can be symbiotic, one hand washes the other.

I view the incremental building of my Aisle o'Misfit Toys as anything but accumulating capital. It's a bricolage; and my magic school bus.
Yes, the products are built using commodities and someone skilled/knowledgable had to assemble & tune, so they're a tangible investment.
From my perspective...I'm losing capital
Typically I cant get rid of gearmarked money fast enough...but it's a salvage operation not diamond trade. Also serves as my source of therapy.
It's satisfying to keep cool old relics/lost arts out of landfills/oceans and seeing how good the sounds hidden inside can sound.
It's extra satisfying to turn trash into treasure and give a middle finger to the disposability & convenience favoring, fickle consumerism in society.
It's invaluable to let your mind wander and sort out stuff weighing heavy on you. Good sounds have a way of coaxing bad thoughts outta mind.
Some people pay big bucks to have a quack voyeuristically observe as you spill guts, while constantly asking "how does that make you feel?"
The answers are more interesting when letting your hands get creative & do the talking for your hurting head, heart. Think out loud.

My first practice amp was a 1950s tape recorder from the curb, trash day. Wheels turned. Got me thinking where I'd heard "radio tubes" before.
The Brave Little Toaster, a childhood fav but kinda dark for children. The stereotypical creepy 80s animated movie. It's stuck in my memory.
The real source of the trauma was much more scarring. Imagine returning from the boardwalk to your beach house at 5 years old, peak happiness, to learn grandma threw away your baby blanket, which was crocheted by your other grandma.
Later dad told me how his 1950s comics and baseball cards suffered a similar fate
However, I'm on my sonic journey in part because someone like my grandma discarded a perfectly good tape recorder. Life is interesting

sergiomunoz74 wrote:I don't know how I feel about the whole "it used to be so simple" thing. Back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's studio productions used a ton of gear because they needed it to create that magic. I mean bands had big ass amps on stage with a ton of heads, or big ass moog modulars, or like 2 organs and like a whole production. I mean psych and prog was super huge in that time frame and studio magic plus taking a whole freight truck worth of gear was just par for the course. If they had access to the amount of pedals we had, they probably would've used them just as well. Good song writers can have a lot or a little and still sound just right.

Case in point - Dave Gilmour. 1973 DG had a fuzz, vibe, echorec, and a coloursound boost/OD. DG today takes probably over a hundred pedals, rack effects and shit out with him. He sounds effectively the same, he does it because he can.