After this's all over, I hope the U.S. gov't bills Trump for the damage he's done to our reputation

[Gone Fission]

The good news is that once democracy is over we may stop trying to make dictatorships in other parts of the world democracies.

When the fuck did we start doing that? Quite the other way, usually. Did I Rip VanWinkle that shit? (I certainly don't think Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking counts as seriously attempting to actually do anything but bomb the bejesus out of a country for the lulz, tho.)

[hbombgraphics]

The good news is that once democracy is over we may stop trying to make dictatorships in other parts of the world democracies.

When the fuck did we start doing that? Quite the other way, usually. Did I Rip VanWinkle that shit? (I certainly don't think Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking counts as seriously attempting to actually do anything but bomb the bejesus out of a country for the lulz, tho.)

now that it's not cool to colonize everything we just force our values on other countries

US has been screwing with the middle east for decades.

Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking is the greatest name for anything ever

[D.o.S.]

The good news is that once democracy is over we may stop trying to make dictatorships in other parts of the world democracies.

When the fuck did we start doing that? Quite the other way, usually. Did I Rip VanWinkle that shit? (I certainly don't think Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking counts as seriously attempting to actually do anything but bomb the bejesus out of a country for the lulz, tho.)

I mean I'm not sure if you're joking but

[hbombgraphics]

I think he's joking.....if not..........Hawaii

[Faldoe]

There is nobody to vote for, democracy is over.
The good news is that once democracy is over we may stop trying to make dictatorships in other parts of the world democracies.

The good news is that once democracy is over we may stop trying to make dictatorships in other parts of the world democracies.

When the fuck did we start doing that? Quite the other way, usually. Did I Rip VanWinkle that shit? (I certainly don't think Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking counts as seriously attempting to actually do anything but bomb the bejesus out of a country for the lulz, tho.)

now that it's not cool to colonize everything we just force our values on other countries

US has been screwing with the middle east for decades.

Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking is the greatest name for anything ever

There is some truth to this but it doesn't explain the Muslim Extremism/Islamism we see today.

The US, and other countries - UK, France, Holland, China, Ottoman Empire - it all depends how far back in history you want to do, have engaged in similar escapades. I'm not invoking those other countries to try and absolve the US of responsibility, but to show it is a human problem that has been occurring for centuries, and that the nuances of foreign/global interaction are not as cut and dry or a dichotomy of the "The West" and the Rest (victims) as some see it. Seeing it as such is often the nicely packed Liberal viewpoint/explanation for everything (I'm not a conservative. Not that it should matter, just making the point).

Taking such a view makes it easier for people to say "if only the US didn't do (or hadn't done) X....."

Regarding Democracy being over. One can argue it never has existed - that people never fully had the full potential to exercise their will, as a people (within the boundaries of the constitution), and I think to some extent one might have a good argument for that. I think though that at the present time - though democracy surely seems forsaken - we still have the ability to exercise our will but we have to do it collectively. Sanders has been talking about these by emphasizing that people need to organize. I can't find the video but he's said it a few times in the debates.

If people think there isn't a democracy or that their votes/voices don't matter then it's a kind of self-reinforcing scenario: The more people drop-out and don't participate; that is, by voting AND by organizing for issues - democracy does fade. Or whoever is left that votes dictates how thing turn out.

You could say too that people really aren't free in their thought, that they don't engage in any critical thinking and just listen to their favorite politician(s) or taking head(s) about how/who to vote for and just pull the lever.

[D.o.S.]

I think he's joking.....if not..........Hawaii

for starters.

[Mudfuzz]

I think he's joking.....if not..........Hawaii

for starters.

blowing up Hawaii would just anger volcano gods and that would suck.

[Iommic Pope]

fwiw here's the official [non] apology

" "I was going impromptu and my brain didn't catch up to my mouth," LePage said. "Instead of Maine women I said white women. ... If you go to Maine, you can see it's 95 percent white.

If I was perfect, I would be a reporter," LePage said. "If you want to make it racist, go ahead and do what you want."

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politic ... rk-n492776

There's a fairly common bumpersticker around these parts that reads 61% (the percentage of the state that didn't vote for this useless piece of scatological refuse), and his politics are as bad as his corrections.

That is quite the non-apology.

The good news is that once democracy is over we may stop trying to make dictatorships in other parts of the world democracies.

When the fuck did we start doing that? Quite the other way, usually. Did I Rip VanWinkle that shit? (I certainly don't think Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking counts as seriously attempting to actually do anything but bomb the bejesus out of a country for the lulz, tho.)

Dude.....really?
South America ringing any bells?

Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking is the greatest name for anything ever

This is a fact, though.

Muslim Extremism/Islamism......

And Postcolonialism.

Yeah, I mean, there's blood everywhere if you go back far enough. That's the empire building game.
But I think since the birth of social sciences and mass education, eventually leading to tertiary education, which in some instances can be called real education, we can kind of call bullshit on centuries old ripple effect theories having any kind of relevance to stuff that clearly happened not more than forty to fifty years ago.

[hbombgraphics]

The Non-apology above is amazing to me.

and I don't believe US Meddling is an excuse or justification for extremism, but we haven't done much good by butting in. Essentially served our own interests without any sense of how we are disrupting the cultures we overtake. I also don't believe this is necessarily a liberal or conservative viewpoint, It's just the reality.

I do feel that democracy is a complete disaster at this point and I don't buy the "Grass Roots Get involved more people need to vote" Line of thinking. There is no-one to vote for, and it's too expensive for the average joe to even get in the game. Money is driving, working inside the already broken system won't fix it.

[Chankgeez]

Dear, fellow POTUS differentials,

Please allow hbomb to hereby furthermore destroy democracy.

Thank you,
The POTUS Maker

[hbombgraphics]

YAY!!!!!!!!!

So to answer the question posed by the title of the thread

No it doesn't matter, because I am going to destroy democracy

[Chankgeez]

U.S. meddling is definitely partially (a large part) a cause of extremism though. Whether it's justified or not depends on perspective.

(I, for one, welcome our new hbomb overlord.)

[hbombgraphics]

U.S. meddling is definitely partially (a large part) a cause of extremism though. Whether it's justified or not depends on perspective.

(I, for one, welcome our new hbomb overlord.)

I am now realizing that overlording with an Hbomb would not make sense outside of ILF



I think Bahari does a good summarization of our muckups in Iran in the beginning of his book, if people want to read more about US Meddling, from a non-US perspective. Not a full justification for terrorism, but a good explanation for why there is no reason to like or trust the US.

[Gone Fission]

The good news is that once democracy is over we may stop trying to make dictatorships in other parts of the world democracies.

When the fuck did we start doing that? Quite the other way, usually. Did I Rip VanWinkle that shit? (I certainly don't think Operation Enduring Wishful Thinking counts as seriously attempting to actually do anything but bomb the bejesus out of a country for the lulz, tho.)

Dude.....really?
South America ringing any bells?

That was pretty much exactly my point. I think it was in Zinn's "A People's History . . ." where he lists by year every U.S. intervention in Central or South America and there weren't many years not on the list for a long fucking stretch of time. I'm not aware of the CIA or its forbears backing free and fair democratic elections in any of those instances. Strong men dictators were the choice. If the strong men and their partisans were into raping nuns, that only heightened the firmness of the choice. Not just a western-hemisphere thing: Suharto, the Shah, Lo Nol, Diem, Marcos, and so on. Some neocon's wishful thinking that the grateful people of Iraq would rush to make their guy, Ahmed Chalabi, president, well, that seems more unalike in its incompetence than in its intent.

[Chankgeez]

Hey, they don't call 'em Banana Republics for nothin'.