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Mosfed wrote:Start playing bass

That only works for playing shitting rock music though...

I imagine after four pages a lot has been said by now, but I was in the same place a few months ago. Not playing as much, feeling like I was fumbling over the fretboard trying to find something decent tom play. I got on youtube and started watching videos. I found this series called Guitar Moves. The first one was with st vincent, which didn't help much, because she already is someone I listen to and have similar taste as. But I dug deeper and learned little things from guitarists I didn't have as much in common with that got me looking at my hands, strings, and fretboard in different ways.

I also wanted to get rid of a weakness I had, which was not using my pinky much outside of chords. So I just made up little licks or melodies that required me to use my pinky in conjunction with the other four fingers. I played them over and over until I got it. And just getting over that little thing that held me back really boosted my confidence back up as well.

the most important thing though is to push yourself to play. I used to play everyday and recently I slowed down, it wasn't a natural thing anymore. Pushing through it by learning new shit got me back, but I still have to push myself to stop playing fucking Dragon Age and pick up a guitar or make noise once a day.

what if you're just horrible?

PumpkinPieces wrote: But I dug deeper and learned little things from guitarists I didn't have as much in common with that got me looking at my hands, strings, and fretboard in different ways.
the most important thing though is to push yourself to play.

wisdom. definitely looking at players that you cringe at or yeah have nothin in common with, lets new ideas come about....

I think too often I have heard the "listen to something on the radio and figure out how to play it" which is a skill in itself to develop. But I want to suggest the less popular advice: Get a teacher. Seriously. Skip the local college students that teach kids, find a proper music conservatory and someone with credentials. If you mostly play electric guitar, maybe find someone who has a background in classical guitar. Take the first free/discounted lesson and get a feel for them. Figure out whether their feedback helps you. Sometimes it helps to pay a pro.

(I know in advance that this is going to be a less popular opinion, but I wanted to throw it out there. A lot of guitarists that I've ever talked to are fiercely in the self-learner category and would never consider getting a teacher. But if you wanted to do anything else that required a high level of muscle coordination, say, martial arts -- are you going to try to figure it out from kung fu videos on Youtube and books, or are you going to a class from a good teacher? They're probably going to position you better and make sure you're actually doing the thing you're supposed to be doing. I feel like playing music should be the same way, to supplement your self-learning.)

Except martial arts isn't an "art" or expression of yourself. I don't think you connect with a way of like kicking the same way you do a certain playing style.

Pursuing artistic expression doesn't disclude the importance of learning from others. Think about it from a different perspecive, such as a painter taking art classes. Sure, we could all learn to paint what is in our hearts or trying to replicate paintings we have seen and develop our own techniques to do so, or we could acknowledge the abundant experience of techniques from other artists and teachers to incorporate into our own style. Just saying Mathias makes a very valid point. And all this is coming from someone who was primarily self taught.

actualidiot wrote:Except martial arts isn't an "art" or expression of yourself. I don't think you connect with a way of like kicking the same way you do a certain playing style.

To an extent, no, it's not. However, martial arts, like music, can be used to find a center in yourself.
It's not the act of, say, tai chi, that brings you peace. It's the constant repetition of learned movement. It allows muscle memory to take control, freeing your mind to wander... or just go blank for a bit.

I think having a professional give you some lessons is a great idea! After all, isn't it easier to break all of the rules when you know exactly what the are?

ProCarsteNation wrote:what if you're just horrible?

See "jazz". Insert "avant-garde".

I don't see myself as a guitarist. I really just see guitar as a means to interface with my pedals.
I've never been proud of my playing, and have always cringed at the thought of playing in front of anyone.

Somehow, I was asked to play in a "high concept" jazz trio consisting of two upright bassists, one supplementing with keys, and the other with trumpet (this guy was James Singleton of The Illuminasty Trio ). The piece was supposed to tell the story of a man getting an MRI to find out if he had brain cancer. While in the MRI, he falls asleep and dreams in music about all of the past pieces he's written or been inspired by... kinda like those lame mid season flashback episodes... but on copious amounts of codeine.
I, and my cadre of pedals, were the MRI. I clanked and clanged my way between "dreams" and even tossed in a few fuzz stabs and atonal counterpoint (think "Rain Dogs" era Marc Ribot with broken fingers) to the smooth jazz playing around me.

It was such a boost of confidence to play with these two seasoned musicians and have one of them look over with a smile and start playing along to my fuzz drenched freak out.

I'm still stunted as a guitar player, not happy at all with the way that I play, but I'm light years ahead of the musician I was before that group, maybe not in skill or technique, but I'm not ashamed of my limitations. Instead, I work with them, pushing myself gently beyond them rather than trying to escape them entirely.

TL;DR
Having a teacher may do you some good, if only to allow you insight on HOW to approach your stagnation differently.
Play in a band, in a genre, you're not comfortable with. It forces you, again, to look at new ways to relieve your tedium.

If that was TL;DR, then:

I wasn't trying to denounce the validity of mathias' point as much as I was trying to explain why some might be "fiercely in the self-learner category".
If taking lessons work for you, then by all means, take lessons.

actualidiot wrote:I wasn't trying to denounce the validity of mathias' point as much as I was trying to explain why some might be "fiercely in the self-learner category".
If taking lessons work for you, then by all means, take lessons.

Of course not!
I was just trying to get a little Point/Counterpoint going!

lessons are no silver bullet. You have to put in work somewhere to push past plateaus. I brought lessons up mainly because of how little I see it suggested.

There's also an aspect I missed by suggesting a music conservatory. A lot of musicians give lessons over the Internet now (Google Hangouts or Skype usually.) I have taken lessons briefly from a psych rock guitarist that I enjoyed while he was on tour, and it was pretty reasonable. (This was about 4 years ago.) You could seek out other musicians that you respect and find out if they'll do Skype lessons (with my warning that not everyone is a good teacher.) Just another idea.

actualidiot wrote:I wasn't trying to denounce the validity of mathias' point as much as I was trying to explain why some might be "fiercely in the self-learner category".
If taking lessons work for you, then by all means, take lessons.

You made a valid point too.

The crossover point of the "music lessons vs martial arts" discussion is history.
A lot of people take Yoga lessons and don't realize (or don't care) that there is
a religious/spiritual practice underlying Yoga. Same goes for martial arts. These
things aren't merely physical exercises like aerobics or jumping jacks. There is
an underlying philosophical/spiritual/cultural framework. So to really practice such
an art one requires an informed teacher to share that tradition and guide you.

So if you are going to learn certain styles of music that were generated from
specific cultures, it might be a good idea to learn about that stuff from somebody
who actually knows.

Of course a note is a note and patterns are there to be discerned. And if
we're talking about guitar, the frets are usually fixed in specific intervals.
You can tune to an open tuning. You can get a seven-string guitar, or an
eight-string, or an eleven-string guitar. But with a six-string guitar tuned
to EADGBE with no micro tone fret configuration, there are only so many
chords/scales possible. Music is music. There is no tradition police to
arrest you if you mix and mash-up styles into a form you find pleasing.

The major thing is to find the method that is right for you, whether that
is self-taught, lessons, or a combination of the two approaches.

ALLisNOISE wrote:

ProCarsteNation wrote:what if you're just horrible?

See "jazz". Insert "avant-garde".

I was having a shitty day, and meant horrible as a person,
but your answer is awesome and kinda works anyway