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insubordination wrote:

Jero wrote:I think with the ehx loopers you have to get it a half step before time, instead of at the same time.

Yeah the thing to keep in mind is that it's just not on the one, like most loopers. I wrote this in another thread:

The 720 is superior to the Ditto X2 in a lot of ways, but the footswitch is a huge difference that it took me awhile to figure out. On the X2 you can loop on the 1 (in a typical 4 count or 8 count or whatever), but with the 720, you actually hit the footswitch on the 4 or 8 or whatever the last count would be of the sequence you are looping (or on 0 if that makes more sense to your brain). It's a little weird to get used to when I've been using the Ditto and X2 for years, you definitely have to think a little more (or I do ).

Argh. that's why I didn't really cuddle much with my Boss Rc-50, which had basically all the fancy features I wanted BUT trying to use it with a band as a real time looper was plain frustrating.

That was a big reason I sold my vox looper/multi effect thing a few years ago. The switches were awkward, and it had that timing thing.

decomposing wrote:guess I'll get a flashback x4 and upgrade the switch through FX Dr.
that guy is rad.

Not to take away from FXdr, but anyone here could do that for you for like half the cost. Was going to mention it when you brought him up about changing the switch on your hazarai. $30 to solder 2 lugs on a $2-$5 switch is stupid

Bassus Sanguinis wrote:

insubordination wrote:

Jero wrote:I think with the ehx loopers you have to get it a half step before time, instead of at the same time.

Yeah the thing to keep in mind is that it's just not on the one, like most loopers. I wrote this in another thread:

The 720 is superior to the Ditto X2 in a lot of ways, but the footswitch is a huge difference that it took me awhile to figure out. On the X2 you can loop on the 1 (in a typical 4 count or 8 count or whatever), but with the 720, you actually hit the footswitch on the 4 or 8 or whatever the last count would be of the sequence you are looping (or on 0 if that makes more sense to your brain). It's a little weird to get used to when I've been using the Ditto and X2 for years, you definitely have to think a little more (or I do ).

Argh. that's why I didn't really cuddle much with my Boss Rc-50, which had basically all the fancy features I wanted BUT trying to use it with a band as a real time looper was plain frustrating.

aw that's a bummer to hear.. I get along fine with my RC-3.

Jero wrote:That was a big reason I sold my vox looper/multi effect thing a few years ago. The switches were awkward, and it had that timing thing.

decomposing wrote:guess I'll get a flashback x4 and upgrade the switch through FX Dr.
that guy is rad.

Not to take away from FXdr, but anyone here could do that for you for like half the cost. Was going to mention it when you brought him up about changing the switch on your hazarai. $30 to solder 2 lugs on a $2-$5 switch is stupid

yeah I like to support him though because he's done some really awesome time-intensive mods for me
but thanks guys
so I assume all EHX loopers operate this way
I guess Reggie Watts just has figured it out
he's a fucking genius
but I need a simple easy loopster
like the akai, just makes sense
but way limited

I was playing around with this last night putting a metronome through it and using my hands. I could definitely loop a 4 count starting on 1 on the first measure and stopping on 1 on the next measure like all the other loopers I've tried. Could be the footswitches that are causing people problems? I've not spent any quality time with it yet though

Well, you're probably getting the 1 from the next measure looped around in front of the 2 from your first measure. Fine for metronome, but not so good if you're playing an ascending scale and just grabbing the last measure. The looper will probably work fine for me, as long as I make sure to play through the loop at least once before hitting the start, and make sure i play at least a half measure past stopping it. Then you'd assume as long as you tap consistently, it will grab the right content, even if it's from the wrong place.

I just haven't had a chance to try it out. I'll report back how mine is working.

rembrandtvanrijn wrote:I was playing around with this last night putting a metronome through it and using my hands. I could definitely loop a 4 count starting on 1 on the first measure and stopping on 1 on the next measure like all the other loopers I've tried. Could be the footswitches that are causing people problems? I've not spent any quality time with it yet though

I should clarify--you're correct, you can get a loop starting on the 1, but when you do that it chops off the attack of whatever is being looped on the one, like it starts a split second into the 1 count. So I'm not surprised it worked with a metronome, the click of the metronome was probably short enough to be captured in that split second after the footswitch is engaged.

I think the reason for this is that the loop on the 720 isn't started until the footswitch is all the way down and then the pedal is like "oh shit, gotta start looping!" vs. the Ditto/TC switches, which start looping before the footswitch is fully depressed. You can hear a "click" when first pushing the switch down, which I believe is the switch engaging and the loop starting, hence why it's so effortless to loop in time with the Ditto.

insubordination wrote:

rembrandtvanrijn wrote:I was playing around with this last night putting a metronome through it and using my hands. I could definitely loop a 4 count starting on 1 on the first measure and stopping on 1 on the next measure like all the other loopers I've tried. Could be the footswitches that are causing people problems? I've not spent any quality time with it yet though

I should clarify--you're correct, you can get a loop starting on the 1, but when you do that it chops off the attack of whatever is being looped on the one, like it starts a split second into the 1 count. So I'm not surprised it worked with a metronome, the click of the metronome was probably short enough to be captured in that split second after the footswitch is engaged.

I think the reason for this is that the loop on the 720 isn't started until the footswitch is all the way down and then the pedal is like "oh shit, gotta start looping!" vs. the Ditto/TC switches, which start looping before the footswitch is fully depressed. You can hear a "click" when first pushing the switch down, which I believe is the switch engaging and the loop starting, hence why it's so effortless to loop in time with the Ditto.

come on engineers
I have a dream looper that I think I may need to build
they don't seem that hard once you wrap your head around it
these major companies are just missing it
the flashback x4 I think is the best new take if you fix the switches
oh well
north korea still wants to kill everybody and isis (not my favorite band) wants to chop off more heads
so we got a long way to go

Ok, I spent some time with the 720 last night, finally. Yes it starts recording as soon as the footswitch is returned to the up position, so ideally you must depress it JUUUUUUUUST before the downbeat on 1.

*a bunch of incorrect first opinions removed*

Wow. It takes some SKILL to get a perfectly timed, seamless loop, that keeps the beat perfectly in time. I'm not sure how many of you are skilled with unquantized loopers, but damn...I'm a retard.

It's like the first click has to be clearly BEFORE that first beat...but then when you click it again at the end of the loop, the stupid loop starts playing like literally on the downstroke. So consistency is not the answer after all. First click is before the beat, and second click is exactly on or slightly after...I haven't figured it out for sure. Just practiced with a dumbed down four beat strum like 15 times, and of those I only got 3 loops to be perfectly timed, and seamless to the ears. That really kinda sucks if you ask me. I didn't need another thing I've got to practice and master right now. *sigh*

HighDeaf1080p wrote:Wow. It takes some SKILL to get a perfectly timed, seamless loop, that keeps the beat perfectly in time. I'm not sure how many of you are skilled with unquantized loopers, but damn...I'm a retard.

It's like the first click has to be clearly BEFORE that first beat...but then when you click it again at the end of the loop, the stupid loop starts playing like literally on the downstroke. So consistency is not the answer after all. First click is before the beat, and second click is exactly on or slightly after...I haven't figured it out for sure. Just practiced with a dumbed down four beat strum like 15 times, and of those I only got 3 loops to be perfectly timed, and seamless to the ears. That really kinda sucks if you ask me. I didn't need another thing I've got to practice and master right now. *sigh*

This is exactly why I returned mine already. Took it to band practice after thinking I had it down at home and just couldn't get it right.

There is no record button...the loop button starts recording if pushed once...if held for two seconds it undoes/redoes overdubs. So in my experience, holding down the loop button from a stopped state with no overdubs present would probably do nothing. If it did start recording, it would cut off the first quarter second of your loop (not the entire 2 seconds of holding), and then depending on when you pressed it the second time in relation to your beats, it would likely jump in way too soon with the start of the loop, cutting off the end by another quarter second and destroying any steady rhythm so the loop is unusable with a trio or drum machine, etc.

Start of recording has to be just before the downbeat on one, and stop of recording appears to need to be exactly on the next downbeat on one or just after...verdict still out on that. But it's definitely not supposed to be at the same time as the start gets engaged.

Goddamn. Why, loopers? Why? Why are you so difficult to implement? There are so many, and only a couple that actually work. The Ditto is fine if unimaginative. The Boomerang III is rad as shit, but huge, expensive, and hard to power. Is there really no in-between? Maybe two loops with effects/undo/redo?

I mean the looper on the headrush is perfectly fine.

I'm starting to think a quantized looper is the only option that actually works. Here's what I've got:

Pedalboard into 720 on one amp. Trio into second amp. I can record a 4 measure loop that sounds good and appears seamless on the 720 into the one amp. I then switch to the TRIO and start playing along with the looper to teach the Trio the chord progression for the 4 measures...I then engage the Trio, and everything sounds fantastic for 4 measures...

But then we find out that the 720 has shaved 1/8th second off the back of the loop, and so the second go round on the 4 measures is now slightly ahead of the Trio, cuz the Trio is keeping perfect 4/4 time at the loops tempo. Then the next set of 4 measures is even further off...and it's a god damned disaster.

At least a quantized looper like that giant Boss RC-300 looper keeps the tempo and rythm, and just overdubs your playing onto that time track. Too bad it's gigantic. I have no idea what kinda power it requires.

Clearly non-quantized loopers are just for practicing some playing over a simple chord progression BY YOURSELF so you can adjust to the slight tempo imperfections as you play, and not for any kind of band or live use. For now I'll just use mine like the guys in the demo videos...with a chord rhythm and then overdub some embellishment or soloing. Then when I get a real looper I'll throw it in the garbage.