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sonidero wrote:Everyone in this thread has lost they damn minds...

The fact that you can't make your own settings is a huge issue with the toneprint stuff to me. The software exists so why not let people use it?

rfurtkamp wrote:Should add that I'm mystified by the choices in some respects - if you're going to hook it up with MIDI, you want more than three presets.

If you're the type of dude who wants MIDI control, you want precise control. Not bullshit knob and pray controls. Adjustable, on the fly control.

And if you're not, let's add some cost to the pedal for no reason whatsoever.

Three presets in this day and age of dirt cheap and stable memory is just criminal to be honest...there is ZERO excuse to have that few if you're going to offer any at all.

And still, no toneprint editing on your own.

Yawn.

This is the biggest drawback for me personally: you can't edit the presets yourself. I know that TC don't want any old clown tweaking their delay pedals, recording it and showing it to the world, because they'd end up with a boat-load of emails complaining about how shit their delay pedal was, simply because of this one demo they saw. That's why they only use "trusted" musicians. Other than selling really well, TC can be assured that what they're releasing is of good quality and isn't the most obscene array of noises and unmusical artefacts passing off as a delay.

I still think this is a cool idea. If the price was higher then it would flop terribly, but because it's still quite affordable it allows for musicians who aren't ready for a DelayLab, DL4, SuperDelay, Timeline, etc., but also want a little more options than the traditional Flashback. This is really aimed at those who wanted presets, although it is only three. Again, this emphasises what TC Electronic's market aim was. They obviously wanted to cater for casual delay users that wanted a little extra control, but without a huge manual or massive price tag.

monkeydancer wrote:

sonidero wrote:Everyone in this thread has lost they damn minds...

The fact that you can't make your own settings is a huge issue with the toneprint stuff to me. The software exists so why not let people use it?

I wasn't aware every company but TC gives out their proprietary info so you can reprogram their pedals...

What are yall talking about... Has anyone used a Flashback??? I agree that it would be cool to make your own presets via a software editor but there are already the basic styles and a ton of Toneprints to add... I haven't wanted to change any of the prints, they sound good...

The part about a massive manual and digging online for prints is a joke right??? There is a TC site with ALL the prints and IT'S A DELAY WITH 4 KNOBS...

I don't understand what yall want out of a delay pedal...

EVERYTHING!!!!!!

I want, in a simpler unit:

- An actual way to read what the settings are, instead of random knob positions.
- An actual way to set/tell what the delay time is in some generally accepted measure of time, so I can make it work quickly with my other units.
- A way to edit some basic parameters of the thing - tone, the modulation settings, and the like.

This could be done by the USB interface (I'd like an on the unit display, but well, I'd settle for being able to tweak it hooked up to the laptop or home machine), or a simple 3-4 digit LED display.

The new Flashback would be interesting if it allowed for say, a non-delay Toneprint too...etc. As it stands it seems like something that would have come out to compete with the DL4...just after the DL4 came out.

It's not to say that the TC units don't sound acceptable or better, they always have.

It's that I expect something a little more innovative out of the folks who brought us the 2290 in the first place. Usable, but with editing options and the like.

Roland isn't afraid of someone sounding like shit with programmable, bigger units - and the new Flashback really seems like a step backwards. It's competing in a world of the newer Line6 stuff, etc.

Artist presets are great, don't get me wrong, I love screwing with them. One of my favorites in a non-TC unit recently is the "Johnny Marr Clean" on the Fender Mustang units - it just sounds good. But I can go in and make it sound shitty if I want to - and then revert back. And have 100 variants of it if I want, etc.

The TC stuff, if it was tweakable by the end user, even if they agreed that if their mods madet he thing a paperweight was their responsibility, would be amazing. It'd kill the whole dumbass iStomp (which is another festival of yelling altogether) into the ground and be a viable option vs. the L6 units.

Hell, sell me a 'programmable Toneprint' pedal like L6 did with their programmable single pedal formats.

sonidero wrote:

monkeydancer wrote:

sonidero wrote:Everyone in this thread has lost they damn minds...

The fact that you can't make your own settings is a huge issue with the toneprint stuff to me. The software exists so why not let people use it?

I wasn't aware every company but TC gives out their proprietary info so you can reprogram their pedals...

What are yall talking about... Has anyone used a Flashback??? I agree that it would be cool to make your own presets via a software editor but there are already the basic styles and a ton of Toneprints to add... I haven't wanted to change any of the prints, they sound good...

The part about a massive manual and digging online for prints is a joke right??? There is a TC site with ALL the prints and IT'S A DELAY WITH 4 KNOBS...

I don't understand what yall want out of a delay pedal...

I have no problem with this new pedal. It sounds OK, looks OK, is priced OK, and has an OK array of features. I just feel that a self-edited preset would be absolutely inspiring. It would create so much natural ingenuity in the nerds among us, and would ultimately solidify TC Electronic as a true game-changer, just as they were when their rack units came out, and not just a cheesy company from the 90's. The whole toneprint idea is truly inventive, but I did think that, with this being the successor to the Flashback, probably their most popular pedal from that line, they would be the first to offer your own editing software.

rfurtkamp wrote:I want, in a simpler unit:

- An actual way to read what the settings are, instead of random knob positions.
- An actual way to set/tell what the delay time is in some generally accepted measure of time, so I can make it work quickly with my other units.
- A way to edit some basic parameters of the thing - tone, the modulation settings, and the like.

This could be done by the USB interface (I'd like an on the unit display, but well, I'd settle for being able to tweak it hooked up to the laptop or home machine), or a simple 3-4 digit LED display.

The new Flashback would be interesting if it allowed for say, a non-delay Toneprint too...etc. As it stands it seems like something that would have come out to compete with the DL4...just after the DL4 came out.

It's not to say that the TC units don't sound acceptable or better, they always have.

It's that I expect something a little more innovative out of the folks who brought us the 2290 in the first place. Usable, but with editing options and the like.

Roland isn't afraid of someone sounding like shit with programmable, bigger units - and the new Flashback really seems like a step backwards. It's competing in a world of the newer Line6 stuff, etc.

Artist presets are great, don't get me wrong, I love screwing with them. One of my favorites in a non-TC unit recently is the "Johnny Marr Clean" on the Fender Mustang units - it just sounds good. But I can go in and make it sound shitty if I want to - and then revert back. And have 100 variants of it if I want, etc.

The TC stuff, if it was tweakable by the end user, even if they agreed that if their mods madet he thing a paperweight was their responsibility, would be amazing. It'd kill the whole dumbass iStomp (which is another festival of yelling altogether) into the ground and be a viable option vs. the L6 units.

Hell, sell me a 'programmable Toneprint' pedal like L6 did with their programmable single pedal formats.

You are coming from years decades of playing and recording and KNOW how you work and WHAT you want... All your points are valid but all that can be and is done in Rack Units which I know you are very familiar with...

This is a little pedal... I don't see most of the things you mentioned on other small pedals... If peeps want all that shizz and whistles it's out there on other gear...

It's like people are mad at Ford cause the new Mustang doesn't have a pick-up bed or mad at Ikea cause their new Sofa doesn't have a built in bathtub...

I'm 100 years old and will never get it...

AngryGoldfish wrote:

sonidero wrote:

monkeydancer wrote:

sonidero wrote:Everyone in this thread has lost they damn minds...

The fact that you can't make your own settings is a huge issue with the toneprint stuff to me. The software exists so why not let people use it?

I wasn't aware every company but TC gives out their proprietary info so you can reprogram their pedals...

What are yall talking about... Has anyone used a Flashback??? I agree that it would be cool to make your own presets via a software editor but there are already the basic styles and a ton of Toneprints to add... I haven't wanted to change any of the prints, they sound good...

The part about a massive manual and digging online for prints is a joke right??? There is a TC site with ALL the prints and IT'S A DELAY WITH 4 KNOBS...

I don't understand what yall want out of a delay pedal...

I have no problem with this new pedal. It sounds OK, looks OK, is priced OK, and has an OK array of features. I just feel that a self-edited preset would be absolutely inspiring. It would create so much natural ingenuity in the nerds among us, and would ultimately solidify TC Electronic as a true game-changer, just as they were when their rack units came out, and not just a cheesy company from the 90's. The whole toneprint idea is truly inventive, but I did think that, with this being the successor to the Flashback, probably their most popular pedal from that line, they would be the first to offer your own editing software.

Your right both posts...

I'm not some fanboi I just think the Flashback is Awesome for what it does, I like adding new sounds to it, didn't think it was overpriced, is FUN to use, and is usually the only delay on a lot of the time...

For the size, I have to compare it in features to the Digi Time Bender. It has 4 presets, which suck, but you can double it with the expression pedal routine that worked on the DL4. It has an actual display of time and other settings, dedicated modulation and tone controls, stereo, etc, and came out years ago.

That's sort of what my basis for comparison is, I don't expect it to be a rack unit in a box, but it's gunning for the big pedal delay format and both the Timebender and Boss DD-20 have better features IMO.

I was hoping they had done something cool, I really do want to love the Flashback stuff, I've tried. It'd be great, but in a universe of overflowing cheap gear like I've never ever seen (we are in the real Golden Age of guitar/bass now, not the 1960s)...it has to really stand out.

sonidero wrote:

monkeydancer wrote:

sonidero wrote:Everyone in this thread has lost they damn minds...

The fact that you can't make your own settings is a huge issue with the toneprint stuff to me. The software exists so why not let people use it?

I wasn't aware every company but TC gives out their proprietary info so you can reprogram their pedals...

What are yall talking about... Has anyone used a Flashback??? I agree that it would be cool to make your own presets via a software editor but there are already the basic styles and a ton of Toneprints to add... I haven't wanted to change any of the prints, they sound good...

The part about a massive manual and digging online for prints is a joke right??? There is a TC site with ALL the prints and IT'S A DELAY WITH 4 KNOBS...

I don't understand what yall want out of a delay pedal...

I never said other companies DID do that, and the flashback looks like an awesome pedal even without the toneprints, and I'm sure some of the toneprints are good, it's just that it feels like wasted potential because I would really enjoy to tweak things crazily in a software editor and it kinda sucks that one exists and I can't use it.

I was probably overstating things a bit before, I don't think they've committed some heinous crime, I like the flashback, and this looks very cool, I'm just a little disappointed about the fact that you can't edit them yourself.

sonidero wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:

sonidero wrote:I have no problem with this new pedal. It sounds OK, looks OK, is priced OK, and has an OK array of features. I just feel that a self-edited preset would be absolutely inspiring. It would create so much natural ingenuity in the nerds among us, and would ultimately solidify TC Electronic as a true game-changer, just as they were when their rack units came out, and not just a cheesy company from the 90's. The whole toneprint idea is truly inventive, but I did think that, with this being the successor to the Flashback, probably their most popular pedal from that line, they would be the first to offer your own editing software.

Your right both posts...

I'm not some fanboi I just think the Flashback is Awesome for what it does, I like adding new sounds to it, didn't think it was overpriced, is FUN to use, and is usually the only delay on a lot of the time...

I know you're not a fanboy, don't worry. We're just shooting shit and all that. And I do like the Flashback and the entire Toneprint range. In fact, I don't dislike any TC Electronic piece of equipment I've tried.

Very glad to hear delays are accessible while in looper mode. I might have thought about swapping the DelayLab out for this if the price were lower, mostly just because it's smaller, but I think I'll keep 'er.

Chankgeez wrote:I can't believe I sat through 2/3 of that. Chappers has some of the crappiest tone I've ever heard.

Why didn't you post this instead, Pollinator95?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWPjjlfRp5A[/youtube]

At least I'm used to Tore talking too much.

How can this even be called a "demo"? Does that word mean something else in Europe?

julius_deane wrote:

Chankgeez wrote:I can't believe I sat through 2/3 of that. Chappers has some of the crappiest tone I've ever heard.

Why didn't you post this instead, Pollinator95?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWPjjlfRp5A[/youtube]

At least I'm used to Tore talking too much.

How can this even be called a "demo"? Does that word mean something else in Europe?

It's not just people from Eurasia who fail to understand that "demo" is short for "demonstration".

People from all over use the word "demo" very loosely.

Talking about how something works is not as illustrative as showing how something works. People who make demos can attempt to explain things all they want, but showing someone how a product actually operates is usually way more helpful than just talking about it. You know, just like a picture is worth a thousand words? Demonstrating the capabilities and functionality of a product is likewise.

So, yeah, the meaning of demo's been watered down to the point where any video clip of a device is now considered a "demo".

Words are awesome cause I understand them... He answered all my questions, I don't need to hear it "DEMOED"...

Expression control over anything is AWESOME...