so do we have a thread about this Amanda Palmer thing yet?

[pigmaker]

i put my dick in amanda palmer's communal sad/bland potato salad

[dase]

I still have no idea what her music actually sounds like. But feel like words like 'burlesque' and 'cabaret' get thrown around describing it.

[morange]

spilling your coffee just enough to have it run down the side of the mug and make you look like an asshole with shaky hands

I don't know what this means but I like it.

But yeah, begging is repulsive when you're rich. There's nothing new or unique about using people. I get the feeling her whole image is an excuse to be a leech.

[ryan summit]

because of this thread
now i know who she is
and what shes done
i did google, wikipedia,kickstarted
some blog action,images
now i know a bunch
about someone that shouldnt be known
so shes not really famous for her music
shes famous for the way she acquires money
to make the shit music
its not a big deal
but even if on a miniscule level
this has only impacted me negatively
theres nothing about this that i like
except that you guys dont like it as well
what a cuntfart

[AngryGoldfish]

So I'm a huge Amanda Palmer fan. Her music has meant a great deal to me over the last couple of years, so seeing this really breaks my heart. But you folks, wow, you're an angry bunch, aren't you? I thought this kind of group hatred was confined to Harmony-Central. I honestly had no idea everyone hated her so much. To me she's a lovable character with great talent. She has some strange personality quirks, but who doesn't? Yeah, she shaves her eyebrows and draws them on everyday. And yeah, she likes being naked. And yeah, she's arty farty. But how does that have anything to do with what she's done here? You're basing your judgement on this awkward as fuck situation on her personality. That's just unfair. It's what racists and homophobics do. They attack the person as a whole rather than the action in question.

I didn't read all that Amanda had to say, but I know her well enough to take a good guess what it boils down to. I watched her TedTalk and really enjoyed it—she probably just repeated that. I bought her album Theatre Is Evil and really enjoyed it. And yeah, a million dollars for an album is a fuck-ton of money. And I've wondered where that all went. But my goodness you lot are judgemental. She's spent a lot of time leeching off the good will of others. That's what you do when you're a street performer. There are no checks at the end of the week because the business legally has to pay you—lets face it, if there was no such thing as minimum wage, most fuckers wouldn't bother paying you or I a dime. This has rubbed off on her. She's taken it too far with this, but is it really necessary to hate the rest of her because of it. The Irish often act similarly, yet I don't hate everyone in Ireland because of it.

Most of you hear posted hateful spam because you hate Amanda Palmer. This act was careless on her part, and she should apologise. But I dislike the fact that you're using what she's done as another vehicle to rag on her and insult her, not just as a person but as a woman as well. I think that's taking it too far. You accuse her of being a drama queen, yet you are quick to make sweeping accusations about her and how she's manipulated her fans by acting like this free-spirited goddess of the ukulele, when the decision to perform for free was, ultimately, their decisions to make. Amanda exploited this and shouldn't have without first expressing her gratitude by paying people. And you don't even have to pay them in cash. You could simply hook them up with a place to stay and order a table full of snacks and drinks for them.

But again, this is just one part of her personality. It's unfair to right off all the good she's done and the barriers she's broken down when she's done only one insensitive thing.

[Chankgeez]

So I'm a huge Amanda Palmer fan. Her music has meant a great deal to me over the last couple of years, so seeing this really breaks my heart. But you folks, wow, you're an angry bunch, aren't you? I thought this kind of group hatred was confined to Harmony-Central. I honestly had no idea everyone hated her so much. To me she's a lovable character with great talent. She has some strange personality quirks, but who doesn't? Yeah, she shaves her eyebrows and draws them on everyday. And yeah, she likes being naked. And yeah, she's arty farty. But how does that have anything to do with what she's done here? You're basing your judgement on this awkward as fuck situation on her personality. That's just unfair. It's what racists and homophobics do. They attack the person as a whole rather than the action in question.

I didn't read all that Amanda had to say, but I know her well enough to take a good guess what it boils down to. I watched her TedTalk and really enjoyed it—she probably just repeated that. I bought her album Theatre Is Evil and really enjoyed it. And yeah, a million dollars for an album is a fuck-ton of money. And I've wondered where that all went. But my goodness you lot are judgemental. She's spent a lot of time leeching off the good will of others. That's what you do when you're a street performer. There are no checks at the end of the week because the business legally has to pay you—lets face it, if there was no such thing as minimum wage, most fuckers wouldn't bother paying you or I a dime. This has rubbed off on her. She's taken it too far with this, but is it really necessary to hate the rest of her because of it. The Irish often act similarly, yet I don't hate everyone in Ireland because of it.

Most of you hear posted hateful spam because you hate Amanda Palmer. This act was careless on her part, and she should apologise. But I dislike the fact that you're using what she's done as another vehicle to rag on her and insult her, not just as a person but as a woman as well. I think that's taking it too far. You accuse her of being a drama queen, yet you are quick to make sweeping accusations about her and how she's manipulated her fans by acting like this free-spirited goddess of the ukulele, when the decision to perform for free was, ultimately, their decisions to make. Amanda exploited this and shouldn't have without first expressing her gratitude by paying people. And you don't even have to pay them in cash. You could simply hook them up with a place to stay and order a table full of snacks and drinks for them.

But again, this is just one part of her personality. It's unfair to right off all the good she's done and the barriers she's broken down when she's done only one insensitive thing.

Why did you have to drag this up?

You don't really know her, you know her public persona.

As a fan, you automatically have a bias towards her. I don't deny what other people have said is baseless, but what you've just written is just as baseless.

She actually is a drama queen, that's a fact.

I, personally, don't think what she did is a big deal, but, you're right, her fans are willing participants in the whole ordeal.

Unfortunately, people are quick to judge and all it takes is one slip in judgement.

[AngryGoldfish]

I brought this up because it matters to me. I never understand it when someone complains at another for doing that. It's not like I'm bumping the thread after two years with the words "Yeah, I agree with this dude."

I wasn't biased, or at least I didn't think I was, and I certainly didn't mean to be—but I guess that's what being biased is. I said that I strongly disagreed with what she did, but that to attack her as a whole wasn't fair. That's all I said.

And I know she's a drama queen. Musicians are often that way. Her music is full of drama and over-the-top characters. She does everything different. I just happen to like that part of her.

[D.o.S.]

I don't know if you read this, but you probably should:
http://amyvs.weebly.com/1/post/2012/09/ ... almer.html

Also, it's worth noting that she did, eventually, end up paying her guest musicians because not paying people is a shitty thing to do: http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/09 ... ?mobile=nc

I think we're all relatively versed in the DIY-thing here at ILF. That's why we buy from small builders, buy each others records, listen to limited releases, and generally have more niche interests than the fine folks at joe schmoe with a guit-fiddle.com... And I think the fact that the response was so overwhelmingly negative from every avenue of the greater independent community really speaks to the falseness of the initial idea.

Especially when you read where the "newly free money" came from:

for better or for worse, this whole kerfuffle has meant i’ve spent the past week thinking hard about this, listening to what everyone was saying and discussing. i hear you. i see your points. me and my band have discussed it at length. and we have decided we should pay all of our guest musicians. we have the power to do it, and we’re going to do it. (in fact, we started doing it three shows ago.)
my management team tweaked and reconfigured financials, pulling money from this and that other budget (mostly video) and moving it to the tour budget. 
all of the money we took out of those budgets is going to the crowd-sourced musicians fund. we are going to pay the volunteer musicians every night. even though they volunteered their time for beer, hugs, merch, free tickets, and love: we’ll now also hand them cash.

Like someone said on the first page "you have full time staff. you can pay your musicians."

[Chankgeez]

OK, fair enough. Obviously it's something you feel strongly about.

I was just hoping that because this thread really serves no purpose, it would die a quiet death.

I'm sorry she was attacked, but she seems to've kinda brought it on herself.

[pigmaker]

goldfish, what barriers did she break down? not being accusatory, I just don't know much about he

like diy/indie cred , direct interaction with the fans barriers? iswhat im guessing

[AngryGoldfish]

OK, fair enough. Obviously it's something you feel strongly about.

I was just hoping that because this thread really serves no purpose, it would die a quiet death.

I'm sorry she was attacked, but she seems to've kinda brought it on herself.

I probably should have let it die. I guess I was just a little worked up and disappointed in her, who is ultimately a hero of mine. I also didn't check the post dates.

goldfish, what barriers did she break down? not being accusatory, I just don't know much about he

like diy/indie cred , direct interaction with the fans barriers? iswhat im guessing

It's mostly to do with sexuality. Her support for gay rights, including marrying an active supporter of gay rights, is appreciated by many, although taken a little more for granted these days. I believe wholeheartedly in equal rights, despite having reservations of homosexuality. Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer, from what I can tell, respect this standpoint and don't criticise those of similar ilk like some do.

Also, she's encouraged people to feel more comfortable in their own skin—again, sexuality. It's not hard to find videos and pictures of Amanda stark naked, and I think that's cool. I believe we shouldn't be so concerned with our sexual appendages. Porn has made blokes paranoid of their dicks, and glossy magazines have made women paranoid of their waistline. Amanda has broken some of that down.

She's also, though maybe a little more inadvertently, diminished the social stigma of more unique body sculpting, such as hairy armpits on a lady, shaving eyebrows, and dressing in circus ware (is that how you spell it?). But also to accept your differences, especially if they're physical deformities. The Evelyn Evelyn record does this in spades, and quite obviously.

I get that folks don't care about that. Normally I would be cringing if someone supported such blissfully unaware artists and social figures, but for some reason I can relate to Amanda Palmer and her music and really appreciate what her work with Dresden Dolls, Evelyn Evelyn and Amanda Palmer and the Grand Theft Orchestra have taught me.

I don't know if you read this, but you probably should:
http://amyvs.weebly.com/1/post/2012/09/ ... almer.html

Also, it's worth noting that she did, eventually, end up paying her guest musicians because not paying people is a shitty thing to do: http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/09 ... ?mobile=nc

I think we're all relatively versed in the DIY-thing here at ILF. That's why we buy from small builders, buy each others records, listen to limited releases, and generally have more niche interests than the fine folks at joe schmoe with a guit-fiddle.com... And I think the fact that the response was so overwhelmingly negative from every avenue of the greater independent community really speaks to the falseness of the initial idea.

Especially when you read where the "newly free money" came from:

for better or for worse, this whole kerfuffle has meant i’ve spent the past week thinking hard about this, listening to what everyone was saying and discussing. i hear you. i see your points. me and my band have discussed it at length. and we have decided we should pay all of our guest musicians. we have the power to do it, and we’re going to do it. (in fact, we started doing it three shows ago.)
my management team tweaked and reconfigured financials, pulling money from this and that other budget (mostly video) and moving it to the tour budget. 
all of the money we took out of those budgets is going to the crowd-sourced musicians fund. we are going to pay the volunteer musicians every night. even though they volunteered their time for beer, hugs, merch, free tickets, and love: we’ll now also hand them cash.

Like someone said on the first page "you have full time staff. you can pay your musicians."

I did read the letter, yeah. It's what made me feel so disappointed in Amanda, because it certainly wasn't the slew of insults from this thread. This was from a fan. I didn't bother reading Amanda's reply in full because I knew what she was going to say and because there is no excuse for it. She should have supported her musicians, whether permanent or temporary. It's good manners and a common gesture of gratitude.

[AngryGoldfish]

goldfish, what barriers did she break down? not being accusatory, I just don't know much about he

like diy/indie cred , direct interaction with the fans barriers? iswhat im guessing

Also, her connection with the fans, as you said, is uncommon in other artists. Most don't give a shit about meeting them. They'd rather just let them enjoy their music from a distance, either at home or in a distant crowd. Which is understandable. But Amanda isn't afraid to go crowd surfing in her underwear, bustle into a small bathroom with 50 fans and sing a Beatles song with a ukulele, and rely on them to fund her career. She took it too far with this, but if it's true she's paid her musicians in the end then I think we can move on.

[dase]

I think you can applaud someone for some things while critiquing others. In this case I don't necessarily agree that she's done a whole lot for queer visibility or body dysmorphia but I can see where you're coming from and support that. That's cool if people get that from Palmer's music. The actual issue that was discussed here was a millionaire with a management team crowd sourcing musicians and making pretences to DIY that some of us found pretty spurious. Someone like J D Samson has done just as much and i thought she still came off whiny and deserving of scorn for her 'I don't get paid enough' spiel she wrote a few years ago. And unlike Palmer I actually like some of Samson's music.

People aren't untouchable or above being called on their shit because they're successful. That's the antithesis of DIY or independent or whatever music to me.

[ChetMagongalo]

It's weird to me when musicians are more famous for their actions outside of composing/performing than actually composing/performing music. But I guess that kind of happens when you're a high dollar person as she seems to be.

As an artist I would hope that listeners would detach my human behavior from my art and not analyze them simultaneously as many do with Richard Wagner if you guys are familiar with him.

[dase]

I dunno in some cases I think it can contribute to it. Like a lot of people seem to love Foo Fighters based on Dave Grohl's personality despite the fact that they haven't put a good record out in over a decade .

Like personally, I think I like Swans MORE because of how much of a dick Michael Gira seems.