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So, it's cool for builders to clone stuff now?

theavondon wrote:So, it's cool for builders to clone stuff now?

why sure - counterfeit, forgery, piracy and cloning is just okay, right *duh*

Seriously though to put it simply, NO, no it isn't. And by default I am the guy who makes these things a big deal and sometimes report sightings to the original builder if not just chastise the clone builder.

I've got the impression that the Meathead design is now out there Much like - say - OCD or Red Llama. Everybody builds them like they build their versions of Fuzz Faces. Not only DIY people, but small biz builders, too, and the reason isn't simply the combo that people are interested in it + the original ones are hard to come by + and they are expensive. I have thought Meathead cloning has been given a shrug and an OK. I might be wrong but that's the impression I've got. Perhaps I should drop D*A*M Captain a few words and ask.

The one pedal that sounds like it's a Devi SM clone is what bugs me. Even though Devi has put all her stuff out for builders and provides her designs as kits, it doesn't warrant a third party to make a business product out of that.

I find the cloning issue really hard to get my head around. If someone is blatantly using another brand's reputation and intellectual property/hard work to further their pedal, that's bad. But as to borrowing/stealing circuits - as long as they have their own pcb artwork it's fine. It's been done since the dawn of time - Tubescreamer/Boss SD-1, MXR dist+/Ross dist/Dod 250. And a lot of circuits are built using standard circuit blocks, or application notes from various components, which leads to similar designs anyway.

This dude isn't saying it's a Meathead, he's not using none-too-subtle references like calling it a "flesh-cranium" or some such rubbish - I think it's fair game. It's only the fact that we have some members with an extremely good ear for fuzz, and a knowledge of electronics that allows us to know that it is a Meathead clone. He's letting the product talk for itself. And anyways, DAM and 9 of Swords operate in two totally different spectrums of the market - Dave's not going to get affected by the existence of this pedal.

On the other hand, you have to respect designers (like the subforum dudes) who actually put in time and effort to create new stuff - it's what drives the industry forward.

</rant>

Bassus Sanguinis wrote:

theavondon wrote:So, it's cool for builders to clone stuff now?

why sure - counterfeit, forgery, piracy and cloning is just okay, right *duh*
Seriously though to put it simply, NO, no it isn't. And by default I am the guy who makes these things a big deal and sometimes report sightings to the original builder if not just chastise the clone builder.
I've got the impression that the Meathead design is now out there Much like - say - OCD or Red Llama. Everybody builds them like they build their versions of Fuzz Faces. Not only DIY people, but small biz builders, too, and the reason isn't simply the combo that people are interested in it + the original ones are hard to come by + and they are expensive. I have thought Meathead cloning has been given a shrug and an OK. I might be wrong but that's the impression I've got. Perhaps I should drop D*A*M Captain a few words and ask.
The one pedal that sounds like it's a Devi SM clone is what bugs me. Even though Devi has put all her stuff out for builders and provides her designs as kits, it doesn't warrant a third party to make a business product out of that.

It doesn't bother you that a 3rd party would clone DAM jawn? Cause his pedals cost more? It's different with DE because she started ILF? Seems pretty screwy to make production runs of pedals that are still in production by their "creators." Also, does NoSfx run that tagboardeffects blog? If not, they are selling someone else's circuits, with yet again, someone else's layouts. That's just sloppy.

theavondon wrote:So, it's cool for builders to clone stuff now?

How's that Rat Tail treating you?

D.o.S. wrote:

theavondon wrote:So, it's cool for builders to clone stuff now?

How's that Rat Tail treating you?

Jero wrote:

Bassus Sanguinis wrote:

theavondon wrote:So, it's cool for builders to clone stuff now?

why sure - counterfeit, forgery, piracy and cloning is just okay, right *duh*
Seriously though to put it simply, NO, no it isn't. And by default I am the guy who makes these things a big deal and sometimes report sightings to the original builder if not just chastise the clone builder.
I've got the impression that the Meathead design is now out there Much like - say - OCD or Red Llama. Everybody builds them like they build their versions of Fuzz Faces. Not only DIY people, but small biz builders, too, and the reason isn't simply the combo that people are interested in it + the original ones are hard to come by + and they are expensive. I have thought Meathead cloning has been given a shrug and an OK. I might be wrong but that's the impression I've got. Perhaps I should drop D*A*M Captain a few words and ask.
The one pedal that sounds like it's a Devi SM clone is what bugs me. Even though Devi has put all her stuff out for builders and provides her designs as kits, it doesn't warrant a third party to make a business product out of that.

It doesn't bother you that a 3rd party would clone DAM jawn? Cause his pedals cost more? It's different with DE because she started ILF? Seems pretty screwy to make production runs of pedals that are still in production by their "creators." Also, does NoSfx run that tagboardeffects blog? If not, they are selling someone else's circuits, with yet again, someone else's layouts. That's just sloppy.

Yeah, sloppy. And ...um, I feel I've been misunderstood.

It does bother me that a 3rd party would clone DAM jawn and make it into a production. But as I said, I thought Meathead cloning has been given a shrug and an OK. I mean, by the original designer. At least, that's Whavt I think, please correct me if I'm wrong. :blush: I referred to te sales points as the motive why a cloning builer would do it - with permit I'm supposing - NOT, what justifies the cloning, see?

And cloning Devi bothers me because - as I wrote - because she made it easy for DIY people so it would make no point cloning her stuff for profit.

doesn't my original post make sense?

That website is weird as fuck with my OS, but those pedals look awesome... shame I don't have 40 quid tucked away just now, I would dig on a twin earth....

Somebody call me when doom is over...

I do think cloners should be more up front about what their designs are based on.
DAM (as well as Devi I suspect, has anyone seen the inside of the sm/hype sound-alike?)

Yes DAM pedals sometimes go for a premium (though you can get meatheads/superbees/dragnflies fairly cheap these days)...
but David Main has always been pretty upfront with what goes into his pedals, and if you've purchased any old school type of tone bender (MKI/1.5/II/III Buzzaround) there is a 95% chance it is based on the David Main schematic (or some variant of his original work tracing those circuits).

Give respect where it's due

Gunner Recall wrote:I do think cloners should be more up front about what their designs are based on.
DAM (as well as Devi I suspect, has anyone seen the inside of the sm/hype sound-alike?)

Yes DAM pedals sometimes go for a premium (though you can get meatheads/superbees/dragnflies fairly cheap these days)...
but David Main has always been pretty upfront with what goes into his pedals, and if you've purchased any old school type of tone bender (MKI/1.5/II/III Buzzaround) there is a 95% chance it is based on the David Main schematic (or some variant of his original work tracing those circuits).

Give respect where it's due

^yeah, I agree, it builds up the popularity of the original design.

Gunner Recall wrote:I do think cloners should be more up front about what their designs are based on.
DAM (as well as Devi I suspect, has anyone seen the inside of the sm/hype sound-alike?)

Yes DAM pedals sometimes go for a premium (though you can get meatheads/superbees/dragnflies fairly cheap these days)...
but David Main has always been pretty upfront with what goes into his pedals, and if you've purchased any old school type of tone bender (MKI/1.5/II/III Buzzaround) there is a 95% chance it is based on the David Main schematic (or some variant of his original work tracing those circuits).

Give respect where it's due

Building from someone else's schematic vs directly using another persons layout, is different. Layouts are the one thing I think a builder does have "rights to." Also, the term "based on" implies (to me at least) that the circuit has had modifications in function/sound/etc to the original design. That one pedal is just straight up a Meathead. No question about it. As cheap as these are priced, I don't think they need to use the typical marketing spiel to lure you in. Just be upfront...and make your own layouts...and mod the damn thing. Give us a new addition, to a sound that's so loved. Hell, put two in one box, each with a different tone character, and give it a blend. That would be

Gunner Recall wrote:Any word on what the others are?

The earth fuzz sounds A LOT like the soda meiser.

I could tell it was a Soda Meiser clone by the description alone. Sounds like an SM with a VFM switch and chaos switch. Could be a Hyperion though as the lower control settings sound more transparent... or he found a way to clean up the SM's lower intensity settings. In the video it states a "more vintage sounding alpha mode." and at the end when the chaos gets insane he says "the sound gets artifacty." Looks affordable though... if I didn't have the whole SM family in my God Machine I'd be down. Love the graphic.

D.o.S. wrote:

theavondon wrote:So, it's cool for builders to clone stuff now?

How's that Rat Tail treating you?

Pretty good. It's on vero, and it sounds better (and different) than any other rat I've ever tried. And I've owned four. Two from ProCo.

Now, DOS, if you really wanted to sick burn me, you would have asked "HOW'S THAT MEATHEAD CLONE JERO BUILT FOR YOU, BRO?"

...to which I would have said "Good! It's point-to-point, which is an interesting way to build it, an it has switches to change he input and output caps, changing the sound!"

I'm not asking for completely original designs here. Just a hint of originality. I mean, c'maw. This guy just needs to skate better.