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Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:37 pm
by lordgalvar
No worries on dev time man!
Nice catch on the screen grab. Is that DC voltage just for an offset? Neat to see a broadcast one (know they did it, never looked into it much).
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:38 pm
by crochambeau
I don't know the reason for the DC, but the potential is staggering - forward bias a diode into conduction and it'll pass the entire signal (assuming the negative excursion doesn't hit reverse bias levels). Could put more demand on the transformer though, so long as a little current just saturates and doesn't BBQ it could be a source of fun..
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:08 pm
by lordgalvar
Hmmmm, something for me to research.
Still weird that it is going away from the circuit?
Some links:
https://www.google.com/patents/US3205457
https://www.google.com/patents/US2455732
http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/r ... torial.php
Maybe the DC connection is to help balance the overall system and keep the diodes diode'in?
I think what you propose would be pretty damn neat.
That second patent up there looks like it has something similar with a clipping setup and balancing pot?
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:14 pm
by Chankgeez
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but I can't wait to hear it.
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:39 pm
by lordgalvar
That reminds me....
Sidetracked by noon!
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:41 pm
by crochambeau
lordgalvar wrote:Maybe the DC connection is to help balance the overall system and keep the diodes diode'in?
Yeah, I'm thinking it might just be a control to place modulation amount at a fixed percentage. I think a lot of the time they shoot for something like 30-70% instead of full on like a lot of the weirdos in the music community.
Those two patent plots are awesome finds. The NW Bell one is quite nuts in the use of the output transistor. That demands some experimenting time..
Looks like the HT Carter circuit is going for best balance, while simultaneously allowing for the worst. Love it!
Chankgeez wrote:I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but I can't wait to hear it.
Me too! hahaha
lordgalvar wrote:That reminds me....
Sidetracked by noon!
Mail delivery that early? Been nice knowing you, please come up for air at some point and let me know what you think!
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:23 pm
by lordgalvar
The bell on is quite neat. I think there are lots of possibilities there.
Here is Chankgeez frequency shifter:
https://www.google.com/patents/US2569279 if you can figure out the phase network haha (when I was reading up on the Haible one...it was pretty much a measure each component for perfect match kinda game...each one custom).
Haha, the sidetrack thing...I just remembered I got diodes in yesterday to go with some different pita-to-find transformers (one of those custom order deals). Don't know how it will turn out, but I did see somebody using a setup like this in a bigger active circuit to cut down on distortion. Then I was like "more patents!"
Then crustacean came...and that's a blast. (It kicks serious ass btw...even as a distortion haha). More on that when I get more time to noise it up.
Anyway, back to the tablesaw or else (I'll pull a late night withe transformers and audial fire).
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:32 pm
by Chankgeez
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:57 pm
by lordgalvar
[youtube]
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFjYCd-yf8[/youtube]
That got me thinking about stuff the other day too...
Might get you close with out all the fancy Chankgeez...ring mod to rectifier or something like that.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ3tGbXgwV8/
I think I spotted the mantic ring mod.
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:00 pm
by lordgalvar
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0odirgwpA[/youtube]
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:01 pm
by Chankgeez
Good find on that Mantic ring mod &
those sidetones in the last vid.
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:34 pm
by lordgalvar
Division 6 is the brother of that guy that made the syntaur.
I'm kind of curious what kind of ring mod is the core of that Morpheum.
It doesn't seem like it is a blend like usual and more like what was illustrated in crochambeau's screenshot. Probably just ad633 or something though....but I have a feeling it is based off the early ARP one.
edit: I was totally wrong I think.
Did some research: two tl074, a coolaudio v2164 quad vca, and bunch of transistors.
So probably more like the Serge or Carlin.
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:11 am
by echorec
I'm not sure when this happened, but the XR1-E page has received an update. There are more sound clips now, which you can hear at either of these links.
http://www.cg-products.de/xr1-e/
https://soundcloud.com/cg-products/sets/xr1-e
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:15 am
by Strange Tales
Yo in that picture Chank posted, one of you ring mod geniuses wanna tell me how that third waveform is coming about?
I'd read that patent but whoever wrote it seemed to suffer from a mini-stroke every paragraph.
Re: Ring (and/or Balanced) Modulation for the masses
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:33 am
by lordgalvar
That is frequency shifting. Audio Damage, Deflector Shield, and EHX Ring Thing all do it digitally. Random*Source still has some NOS Haible boards for a big, analog one (and Sputnik will be releasing a production version of the haible at some point). Chankgeez posted a nice looking analog one earlier in the thread.
Try using two syncronized waves running through parallel ring mods with the same carrier (like sine lfo as carrier and two or split square vco) into half wave rectification (like that cfm one) to chop off the top and bottom of the parallel signals. Then recombine them somehow...should be an approximation, but not exact.
Barton Patent wrote:Curve 63 also contains high frequency components corresponding to' the rectangular shape of the pulses of carrier voltage. The low. frequency components corresponding to the modulating frequency are removed by means of coupling capacitor 31 which connects point D to the control electrode of a pentode tube 38, and'preventsinductance 39 from short-circuiting the modulating voltage at point D. The high frequencycornponents'are removed by means of a circuit comprising inductance 39 and a capacitor 40, which are connected in parallel between the control electrode of tube 38 and ground. This circuit is resonant at the frequency of the carrier wave so that higher frequency harmonics are shunted to'ground by capacitor 40. The wave-form of the voltage supplied to the control electrode of tube 38'may be represented b curve 64 of Fig. 2 and this corresponds to a voltage of the form: h I
' cos (w-p)tcos (w-+p)t The first cycle of curve 64 has been drawn to the same frequency scale as shown in curve 63, whereas the remaining cycles are drawn to a frequency scale such as would be used in practice.
I think
high frequencycornponents might be a key.
Anyway, rectification would be a way to remove the other side of zero...they use caps and phasing.
