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Sup guys! Nice looking snare pic btw.

If you could have someone's kit delivered to your house tomorrow, what would it be?

I am stuck between Dale Crover's 1996 touring kit. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sli5ZnfrE1A

or JHB's Vistalite, maybe Stainless Steel Ludwig kit.

Road Bull wrote:Sup guys! Nice looking snare pic btw.

If you could have someone's kit delivered to your house tomorrow, what would it be?

I am stuck between Dale Crover's 1996 touring kit. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sli5ZnfrE1A

or JHB's Vistalite, maybe Stainless Steel Ludwig kit.

Thanks man, the listing ended with no bidders but I havent gotten my tax return yet so I'm waiting before hitting up the seller to see if I can get it from him outside of ebay. Like I've done for that Darkhorse kit I posted, that's on lockdown for cheaper than ebay shipped as soon as my tax return hits.

Ummmmm it would have to be Des Kensel's old Pearl Maple kit from the BBW era:


(from like 1:50 on)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj1mMdHdYCE[/youtube]

Quick question for you guys....

So lately I've been getting hand pain / cramping / numbness after playing like 5 or 6 songs straight (usually after the faster songs, and we take at most like 10 seconds break between songs) and I can make it go away by ham fisting my hand and pointing out my pointer finger while playing for a few minutes. Its not carpal tunnel I don't think, and its all related to my pointer finger on my right hand. So I'm gonna start doing more in depth finger and hand stretches before playing but I was curious as to if anyone else has or has had this issue and what you can do to prevent it.

Ancient Astronaught wrote:Quick question for you guys....

So lately I've been getting hand pain / cramping / numbness after playing like 5 or 6 songs straight (usually after the faster songs, and we take at most like 10 seconds break between songs) and I can make it go away by ham fisting my hand and pointing out my pointer finger while playing for a few minutes. Its not carpal tunnel I don't think, and its all related to my pointer finger on my right hand. So I'm gonna start doing more in depth finger and hand stretches before playing but I was curious as to if anyone else has or has had this issue and what you can do to prevent it.

Super common problem. From what I've read, if your hands start to hurt while playing, you should chill til theyre alright, otherwise you end up doing more harm than good (I don't know the specifics of it).

Like callouses, good ol practice should work it out. Stretches and warming up always help as well. 10 minutes on a practice pad before playing can make a world of difference.

Muff_Diver wrote:Super common problem. From what I've read, if your hands start to hurt while playing, you should chill til theyre alright, otherwise you end up doing more harm than good (I don't know the specifics of it).

Like callouses, good ol practice should work it out. Stretches and warming up always help as well. 10 minutes on a practice pad before playing can make a world of difference.

Okay cool, I will have to do some research today and see what I can find.

I will have to do more practice pad work. I do usually stretch my arms and legs do to my joints and cramping but I guess I'll be adding hands and fingers to the routine as well.

you are falling appart ancient. Closest to that was just in my left hand about a decade ago and it turned out more so due to my bass playing cause I was using a 6 string with a small strap that was basically cutting off circulation to my arm. so I got a wider strap and I've never had it since.

Any kit? Terry Bozzio

this is drum induced ancient?

I do excercises to stretch and warm up the fretting hand as well as picking hand, it helps a lot but I'm not sure what I do would translate to drum inflicted stuff.

As with any activity, aim for fluid movement with relaxed intensity, think about the movements performed and how you can do it more efficiently and with less stress on your body. you want all energy focused on the point of impact and not being expended as you rotate through a movement by unnecessary tensing of musculature. If it hurts to to, it's probably not correct for you. The trick is in figuring out how to improve the motion so that it is not placing to much stress on the area that is having the issue.

Kung fu isn't just fighting.

AxAxSxS wrote:this is drum induced ancient?

I do excercises to stretch and warm up the fretting hand as well as picking hand, it helps a lot but I'm not sure what I do would translate to drum inflicted stuff.

As with any activity, aim for fluid movement with relaxed intensity, think about the movements performed and how you can do it more efficiently and with less stress on your body. you want all energy focused on the point of impact and not being expended as you rotate through a movement by unnecessary tensing of musculature. If it hurts to to, it's probably not correct for you. The trick is in figuring out how to improve the motion so that it is not placing to much stress on the area that is having the issue.

Kung fu isn't just fighting.

Yup solely drum induced, my left knee / ankle and left wrist are not but I've got the stretches down packed to minimize those pains. This is something new beyond getting back into drumming after not doing it for 3 years.

Well it is in the same muscle group used for holding onto a pick as well as some strumming techniques but I've been playing guitar so sparsely that I don't think its tied together.

That is what I usually do, but its hard to be relaxed when playing blast beats (which I was not at all excited to do.... and am still not.... but its only one song... one 8 minute long song.....) or fast double bass / thrash stuff (which again is only one song in the set list). I've purposely set up the kit to help with my back and minimize twisting so I don't have to over extend any part of my body to hit anything on the kit. I do think its more about the impact and the shitty sticks I'm using which absorb nothing. I can feel the vibrations after hitting a cymbal in my hands, but when I was using promark sticks I never felt that. So i dunno, I gotta do some research and testing to find the real problem.

Correct, its actually a lot more of the exact opposite.

Oh man, if youre using no-name Chinese sticks an upgrade to something proper with totally help.

My personal fave are the promark Japanese oak sticks- a lot more dense and solid than hickory or whatever else are the "standard". I don't think I've played anything else for the past 4 years or so.
Silverfox also makes some nice ones that I had tried before through some endorsement stuff and really really liked but still had a ton of my promarks so never made the full move. My supply is dwindling though, so I may make the switch sooner than later.

Muff_Diver wrote:Oh man, if youre using no-name Chinese sticks an upgrade to something proper with totally help.

My personal fave are the promark Japanese oak sticks- a lot more dense and solid than hickory or whatever else are the "standard". I don't think I've played anything else for the past 4 years or so.
Silverfox also makes some nice ones that I had tried before through some endorsement stuff and really really liked but still had a ton of my promarks so never made the full move. My supply is dwindling though, so I may make the switch sooner than later.

I'm using NOVA sticks at the moment (which are supposed to be Vic Firth factory se3conds) cause they are cheap as dirt and fairly readily available in bulk. I tend to widdle these sticks away and break them extremely fast, but they are also 5B's. I need something a lil thicker and atleast an inch longer, which would be the Promark 747 series, which I've used before with no issues. I just don't feel like dropping $30 for 3 pairs when I can get 12 pairs for the same price.

I feel you on the Oak they tend to last longer and absorb more vibration than their hickory counterparts. I may bite the bullet when I order all the accessories I'll need for the new kit (new heads, a pearl optimount, a good bass drum pillow, etc) and get 12 pairs of the promarks to see if they help and if they last any longer.

A brick of the 2b oak promarks usually lasts me about a year and are well worth the investment.
Every now and then i'll get one that will just snap from the first rim shot, but the other 23 last til the bitter end.

Ancient Astronaught wrote: I just don't feel like dropping $30 for 3 pairs when I can get 12 pairs for the same price.

investment is worth it even if you burn through the 12 pairs at the same rate as the 3 pairs. Plus that you won't be suffering from old man stick holding disease.

bite the bullet and do it.


oh pretty funny drum related incident.

started up anew band with a few buds where I'll be drumming and doing vocals. they practice in the same building as me so they said I can just come down to their unit and bash on the kit that's in there since 2 bands already practice in there.

so i played on one kit the first 2 times and then on a different the next, which was the deathcore drummer's kit. so after 4 jams in a week I completely destroyed his heads since he uses pussy cheap heads and he uses 7As to tap on them. I went and bought him some new ones and my sticks cost more than his heads. Also I guess it doesn't help that I play with tree trunks and beat on drums like they owe me money. we are back in my unit now.

Ancient Astronaught wrote:Quick question for you guys....

So lately I've been getting hand pain / cramping / numbness after playing like 5 or 6 songs straight (usually after the faster songs, and we take at most like 10 seconds break between songs) and I can make it go away by ham fisting my hand and pointing out my pointer finger while playing for a few minutes. Its not carpal tunnel I don't think, and its all related to my pointer finger on my right hand. So I'm gonna start doing more in depth finger and hand stretches before playing but I was curious as to if anyone else has or has had this issue and what you can do to prevent it.

That pain is your body telling you something. "Stop!" Pain, numbness, cramping and whatnot are not good and generally mean you are over straining your hands wrists and limbs. I take if for granted that when I began, I took a handful of lessens as well as participated in band at school. In doing so, I got some basics right off the bat. It is really important to start with a good foundation of basics. I am far from perfect as far as technique goes, but I try to take care of my hands because I want to be able to use them for things as well as playing drums for a long time. It is important to relax, resist urge to tense up in order to play faster, you can only keep that up for so long, and it's really bad for you.

For instance, I have been playing a long time, but I just pulled one of the first videos off youtube, and managed to learn a fair amount. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MMCDKGpF4

Really in-depth, kinda cool slow motion showing hand movement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNcNDsNarDI

Some of the things demonstrated in the video, I might do subconsciously, but am unaware of, while other points are good things to take away that I wasn't aware of a few mins ago. But many a great drummer will tell you to relax, the second your stick is hitting the head or cymbal, you hand should be just tight enough around the stick to hold on and control the rebound. It isn't good for you or your cymbals, heads and hands to put a death grip on the sticks and absorb the full strike of the impact with your body. That energy has to go somewhere, and it shouldn't be your hands.

If you pay attention to little things that are demonstrated in this video, and others like it, you will save yourself a lot of grief down the road. I was just talking to John about this tonight. It kills me to watch someone hit a cymbal "incorrectly." (IMHO) All I mean by that is watching someone hit a cymbal with a stoke that essentially draws a line from the edge of the cymbal to the center hole. Cymbals will die fast like this. They need to be able to dissipate the energy of the impact, and by hitting straight-on, you limit the cymbals ability to deal with that energy. However, if you "slice" or "swipe" your cymbals, you can achieve the same effect and volume, but not destroy your shit in the process. Again, if I am crashing, or whatever, I am not clenching down on my sticks. The sticks are free to rebound and my hands don't become fatigued.

You are also on the right track as far as stretching goes. I would suggest warming up doing some basic medium tempo stuff, nothing crazy, for at least a few minutes, then stretch. I should listen to my own advice. Tonight I sat right down at practice after setting up the kit. And the first thing we payed was a fast song. I move around quite a bit with big arm sweeps. In doing so, I pinched the HELL out of my left shoulder, to the point that it is painful to lift or hold my left arm up. This made practice a pain in the dick tonight. I should have taken some time to warm up and stretch a bit. Lesson learned. '

Anyway, this is a good start. There is always something out there to learn and take away from watching others. I love watching other drummers to see how they play, and what they play.

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:

Ancient Astronaught wrote: I just don't feel like dropping $30 for 3 pairs when I can get 12 pairs for the same price.

investment is worth it even if you burn through the 12 pairs at the same rate as the 3 pairs. Plus that you won't be suffering from old man stick holding disease.

bite the bullet and do it.

Yeah I'm gonna pick up 3 pairs this weekend before our show hopefully it will make a noticeable difference, I will report back.

Road Bull wrote:That pain is your body telling you something. "Stop!" Pain, numbness, cramping and whatnot are not good and generally mean you are over straining your hands wrists and limbs. I take if for granted that when I began, I took a handful of lessens as well as participated in band at school. In doing so, I got some basics right off the bat. It is really important to start with a good foundation of basics. I am far from perfect as far as technique goes, but I try to take care of my hands because I want to be able to use them for things as well as playing drums for a long time. It is important to relax, resist urge to tense up in order to play faster, you can only keep that up for so long, and it's really bad for you.

For instance, I have been playing a long time, but I just pulled one of the first videos off youtube, and managed to learn a fair amount. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MMCDKGpF4

Really in-depth, kinda cool slow motion showing hand movement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNcNDsNarDI

Some of the things demonstrated in the video, I might do subconsciously, but am unaware of, while other points are good things to take away that I wasn't aware of a few mins ago. But many a great drummer will tell you to relax, the second your stick is hitting the head or cymbal, you hand should be just tight enough around the stick to hold on and control the rebound. It isn't good for you or your cymbals, heads and hands to put a death grip on the sticks and absorb the full strike of the impact with your body. That energy has to go somewhere, and it shouldn't be your hands.

If you pay attention to little things that are demonstrated in this video, and others like it, you will save yourself a lot of grief down the road. I was just talking to John about this tonight. It kills me to watch someone hit a cymbal "incorrectly." (IMHO) All I mean by that is watching someone hit a cymbal with a stoke that essentially draws a line from the edge of the cymbal to the center hole. Cymbals will die fast like this. They need to be able to dissipate the energy of the impact, and by hitting straight-on, you limit the cymbals ability to deal with that energy. However, if you "slice" or "swipe" your cymbals, you can achieve the same effect and volume, but not destroy your shit in the process. Again, if I am crashing, or whatever, I am not clenching down on my sticks. The sticks are free to rebound and my hands don't become fatigued.

You are also on the right track as far as stretching goes. I would suggest warming up doing some basic medium tempo stuff, nothing crazy, for at least a few minutes, then stretch. I should listen to my own advice. Tonight I sat right down at practice after setting up the kit. And the first thing we payed was a fast song. I move around quite a bit with big arm sweeps. In doing so, I pinched the HELL out of my left shoulder, to the point that it is painful to lift or hold my left arm up. This made practice a pain in the dick tonight. I should have taken some time to warm up and stretch a bit. Lesson learned. '

Anyway, this is a good start. There is always something out there to learn and take away from watching others. I love watching other drummers to see how they play, and what they play.

Yeah I know.... That's why I'm asking. There's a difference between muscle aches from not having played much in the past three years and this pain.

I will definitely check out the video's through out the day, thanks bud.

I too started out with basic lessons in school, but they mainly taught traditional / jazz grip with the left hand. So I taught my self modern / rock grip and went from there. I really need to learn and execute properly french grip as I've tried and somewhat use it on a couple songs and it really helps bring out snare hits when they typically would be rather quiet.

I've been working really hard on hitting cymbals "correctly", and actually the physics of hitting a cymbal correctly has forced its self upon me in certain ways. For a couple beats I play I'm crashing on my right hand crash as the main cymbal beat and if I don't hit correctly the cymbal wobbles all over the place and sounds extremely inconsistent so I've had to force myself to to do it right. The same goes for alot of my ride as crash beats. Plus for the first time ever I haven't broken a single cymbal in 6 months, thats a freakin record for me.

Yikes on the shoulder bro, almost every joint in my left side does that if I don't stretch out before hand. I'm just not used to warming up on a practice pad which I'm thinking is gonna be vital to my hand health.

Thanks for all the help bud I truly appreciate it.

Skip, I hate to burst your bubble but your hand problems are exactly what mine were and that turned into full blown carpal tunnel. I'd be careful if I were you. I found that stretching a lot before I started playing (which i never did before) helped as well as going to better balanced sticks. I use the Neil Peart Shirikashi oak 747s and they fit right with me. I don't get so much shock. Bigger sticks likea 2B might help too where you don't have to use so much force to get a hart hit as you would from a smaller stick. Those Nova sticks are shitty. I get them for Merrick so he can bang the shit out of his kit without me having to buy a ton of sticks all the time. I can tell a huge difference in them and the Promarks. Relaxing your grip when you start to cramp will help but it feels counter-intuitive. Another thing is that I don't try to do everything with my wrist. I make my down beat come mostly from the shoulder, the "e" come from my wrist, the "and" come from my elbow and the "ah" come from snapping my pinky, ring and middle fingers closed. My blasts arent even, but I like to keep blasts with the down beat a little more accented anyway. If I want them even I just don't hit as hard on beat one. It keeps me from tensing up so much like I was before. I've found that I can do this for about 3 minutes straight with no problems now. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with me having a carpal tunnel release, but I'm sure changing up my technique has a lot to do with it.