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Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2024 10:00 pm
by K2000
Blackened Soul wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 1:36 am How is glitch a new type of effect? You mean pedals and plugins that achieve sounds on industrial/electronic music from the 70s-80s& 90s? That is just repackaging for the unimaginative and lazy…

How is recreating a sound from an old recording innovative?
I'm not sure which recordings you are referring to (cut up ones I guess?) but a pedal is doing this kinda thing during a live performance. That's kind of a big difference.

For pedals that play the "wrong" note, check out the Danelectro Shift Daddy and don't play it like a wah, make your movements erratic.

The Seppuku Kompact Kassette can sound very "off" too, by setting it to 100% wet

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:09 pm
by John
K2000 wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 10:00 pmDanelectro Shift Daddy
I had a couple of those, got them for some kind of ridic deal and soon gave them away to friends. Hilarious rubbish.

The pedal I got from Secret Santa isn't a truly new effect but it's fuggin wild, gonna post a demo soon

Blackened Soul wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 3:18 am Or you could play Michael Jackson licks and have them come out as scat lines in Bill Cosby’s voice :thumb:
Whereas for licking scat we need a GG Allin pedal

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:13 pm
by Bellyheart
John wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:03 pm Apologies if this has already been explored here...

Every "new" effect that comes out is just a rehash, a twist on an existing design, or a combination of standard effects. I can't think of when the last time an effect was created that was truly unlike anything that came before it. I think "Shimmer" is the most recent novel sound to be featured in a pedal, but that's still just a combination of reverb or delay and pitch shifting.

What say you? Will there ever be a truly new effect in our lifetimes? And what do you think is the newest single effect?
I remember commenting about this type of thread over a decade ago around and I think combinations of effects do count as new things. This is why i loved the idea of the Zoia. It allowed me to try different combinations to see if it's results are it's own thing. If you see a filter pedal with any control signal it's very boring but add the envelope or lfo and it's a different thing.

There are things we can't imagine but based on the history of effects I believe new ones will come. New things can be combos of older things and work like all the glitch pedals combining pitch shifting and sampling. Delay, chorus, and flanger are close in how the sounds are made but are different sounds entirely. You can also change the HOW of something and it can reinvigorate the effect like Game Changer's Plasma series.

Support who you feel are pursuing new ideas.

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:12 pm
by echorec
In 2004, I befriended a local engineer, because I wanted someone to teach me about pedal-building. I posed him this question, and he worked on it various ways. At some point, he suggested converting sound into light and then back into sound. We didn't have the funds to test this idea the way he wanted to implement it, but fast-forward several years and you have pedals like the Gamechanger Plasma and the Gamechanger Light Pedal reverb. So does that mean there are ideas for newish effects out there, but they're just not being built? (are the world's best engineers too busy with nuclear fission to give us the effects we crave?)

I have multiple lists of experimental pedal ideas, that involve all kinds of different approaches, but my concern is that no matter how weird the idea is, it may just end up circling back around to something that already exists (modulation, delay/reverb, fidelity, dirt).

As far as soundpainting goes, I don't need a new effect to make new sounds---I can easily combine things that already exist to create interesting colors and textures. As someone with hundreds of plugins and pedals, I can conjure up a sound that's never been heard before anytime I want. I just have to load a drum machine or synth into the DAW and start stacking plugins---in 3-5 minutes, I'll have sweeping delays, splattered modulations, exotic resonances, and all kinds of cinematic colorations.

...do people consider the Miku a new effect? What about the Meowdulator? Or are these just considered synth effects that are far behind the pioneering products like the Roland GR series? https://shop.bsmusicshop.com/the-meowdulaor.html

In the world of motion picture sound, people have to create new sounds all the time (spaceships, otherwordly animals, monsters). If someone stacked a bunch of found sounds with effects and then presented it as a tubonicasaurus pedal, would that be considered new, or is it just another Miku/GR with a different timbre?

A question I would pose: do people expect/want a new effect, or a whole new genre? Ex: no pedal maker is building a spectral arpeggiator, no one is building a self-oscillating sequenced flanger with an FX loop (UFO, ambulance sounds ahead). I feel like there's a lot that can be done without reinventing the wheel. It's kind of like the chef mentality---you don't know what you'll get until you combine existing ingredients in untapped ways. You don't have to climb a mountain in search of undiscovered herbs, when you can just combine stuff that other people wouldn't considere melting together.

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:27 pm
by Blackened Soul
echorec wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:12 pma self-oscillating sequenced flanger with an FX loop (UFO, ambulance sounds ahead).
Have you tried a flanger (and a delay) in a feedback loop? If not do, it is the closest you can get to being a 6 year old in the 80s with a brand new The Atomic Powered Robot toy making your parents regret that purchase :thumb:

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 1:34 am
by echorec
Blackened Soul wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:27 pm
echorec wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:12 pma self-oscillating sequenced flanger with an FX loop (UFO, ambulance sounds ahead).
Have you tried a flanger (and a delay) in a feedback loop? If not do, it is the closest you can get to being a 6 year old in the 80s with a brand new The Atomic Powered Robot toy making your parents regret that purchase :thumb:
Not 100% sure. I have definitely stacked multiple delays in the Rubberneck's loop. I may have tried the Pyramids in a series, too. Generally, I like to put really overpowering stuff into the Rubberneck's FX loop (Grazer, Csidman).

Don't think I had the APR. I may still have one of these in a tub of oddball noisemakers/accessories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzHhn2WtwYU

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 1:53 am
by Blackened Soul
:thumb:
I don’t think I’ve ever messed with the rubberneck. Best feedback looper I ever used for what it’s worth was made by McSpunckle :omg:

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 8:19 pm
by Bellyheart
Best Muff also! keeping hope alive to get my gnome again.

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 2:00 pm
by Desert Rat 007
EAE Prismatic Wall sympathetic resonator. I've never really heard anything like it, and its functionality/UI is amazing. Probably my favorite non-fuzz release of 2024.

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 5:37 pm
by Zork
The first pedal I ever got was a Korg AX1G multi effect. It's basically like a Zoom 505 BUT it had an effect called "Drone":
user manual wrote:An effect which simulates the resonance of Indian music. The pedal controls the effect level. Effective whenyou play in a key corresponding to the pitch specified by the VALUE keys.
I lost the pedal years ago but in my memory, it sounded just like the basic function of the Prismatic Wall. Two parameters only, awful bypass, huge footprint, but it could get you the cheap ass version of the effect for 20 bucks. I often thought about getting another one of those only for the Drone effect because it's so cool.

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 6:03 pm
by echorec
A few people have mentioned the Prismatic Wall, which uses Karplus-Strong physical modeling. There have been hardware synths and software plugins using physical modeling as an effect for years though.

Objeq by AAS dropped over 7.5 years ago. It can make guitars/synthes/pianos sound like wooden blocks, percussion, and various other timbres. It's good for really compressed plucks and extreme timbral shifts. They offer a free 15-day trial, for anyone who wants to explore that.

https://www.applied-acoustics.com/objeq-delay/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtmH3jCnU8U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AuVdRQKNhs

It'd be cool to see chaotic synthesis or vector synthesis in the pedal space, but they wouldn't be new---just new for the pedal space. Granular was a theoretical concept for 50+ years, before it started becoming common in the pedal world (Particle V1, CT5).

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 6:12 pm
by alexsga
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dJbivnxXjME

thought this was cool but i dont think they released it

Image

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 6:21 pm
by alexsga
Zork wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2025 5:37 pm The first pedal I ever got was a Korg AX1G multi effect. It's basically like a Zoom 505 BUT it had an effect called "Drone":
user manual wrote:An effect which simulates the resonance of Indian music. The pedal controls the effect level. Effective whenyou play in a key corresponding to the pitch specified by the VALUE keys.
was Drone similar to a flanger w feedback? sounds similar

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 6:34 pm
by John
alexsga wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2025 6:12 pm https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dJbivnxXjME

thought this was cool but i dont think they released it

Image
They made it into a synth and it's boku bucks:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... zer-module

Re: Will we ever see a truly new effect?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 6:59 pm
by Zork
alexsga wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2025 6:21 pm
Zork wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2025 5:37 pm The first pedal I ever got was a Korg AX1G multi effect. It's basically like a Zoom 505 BUT it had an effect called "Drone":
user manual wrote:An effect which simulates the resonance of Indian music. The pedal controls the effect level. Effective whenyou play in a key corresponding to the pitch specified by the VALUE keys.
was Drone similar to a flanger w feedback? sounds similar
No, the sound wasn't modulated. You set it to a note, and everytime you played that note it would resonate, like a tuned very short high feedback delay. With the expression pedal you could control the level of the effect. It was not as metallic as a fixed flanger and more organic sounding.
The whole pedal was crazy for the time and also had a ring mod, a resonant low pass filter and some sample and hold filter sounds.