ilovefuzz.com

Nice write up. So what are the higher end switches doing differently on the inside? I know not all switches were created equal. Like 15 years ago we were paying over $10 per 3PDT and I never had problems with those. Now there are basic ones for about $3, and still some claim to be high end quality that sell for $12-15 each. One replacement I bought from Love My Switches has a very soft feel and it doesn't pop like the cheap one that failed. In this past year I have seen like 5 switch failures, and I can only think of like 2 in the past decade before that.

I've not torn apart a higher end switch, I'm averse to breaking something that's not already problematic.

I'd wager that the design is similar in function, but the tolerances are tighter, the conductive parts are more finished/better metallurgy, and the wear areas are more robust on an expensive switch (unless the distributor of the "high end" switch is a shyster who just rebrands the bog standard cheap shit).

Shouldn't there be a better way to do this? Relay bypass has solved a lot of the pads heating up issue by getting rid of them but as a whole it seems like a flawed design.

I switched out a fuck ton of stomps doing ASD over the years. Failure were most common in Devi circuits at first but I've changed them out for all kind of different manufactures now.

We need to just make switch we can put inside of our brains that clicks on the effects when we think about them. #lifehack #skynet

On the real though, that is the nerdiest and awesomest write up I could have hoped for! LOL!!! You did the shit I wanted to do! I applaud you good sir!

crochambeau wrote:

Wow, thanks for investigating and posting those pictures. I have less confidence in these switches than ever after seeing just how unrobust that whole pin-and-rocker dealy works.

I see the connectors inside are swimming in grease... a LOT of it. I've had to send in a couple pedals to builders for footswitch replacement and one on them said it was that grease that had collected dirt and thus was blocking the connection. These were clearly not a designed to last.

adamajah wrote:

crochambeau wrote:

Wow, thanks for investigating and posting those pictures. I have less confidence in these switches than ever after seeing just how unrobust that whole pin-and-rocker dealy works.

I see the connectors inside are swimming in grease... a LOT of it. I've had to send in a couple pedals to builders for footswitch replacement and one on them said it was that grease that had collected dirt and thus was blocking the connection. These were clearly not a designed to last.

Those springs can also be slightly different in length/compression, which can cause issue with contact.

Jero wrote:

adamajah wrote:

crochambeau wrote:

Wow, thanks for investigating and posting those pictures. I have less confidence in these switches than ever after seeing just how unrobust that whole pin-and-rocker dealy works.

I see the connectors inside are swimming in grease... a LOT of it. I've had to send in a couple pedals to builders for footswitch replacement and one on them said it was that grease that had collected dirt and thus was blocking the connection. These were clearly not a designed to last.

Those springs can also be slightly different in length/compression, which can cause issue with contact.

I wonder if anyone out there is working on perfecting this piece of shit design. hahaha.

For real though. You'd think someone would do that and change it enough to say suck my dick to patents and blah blah blah. Stomp switches. Pffttt. So archaic.

I don't want to veer to deeply into socioeconomic philosophy here, but, from a capitalist standpoint it makes sense designing in a finite lifespan so as to drum up more sales, etc... (so that is not going away until a wide majority latches onto ecological logic)

Small builders have to fight against the disposable culture that super big industries have cultivated on a day to day basis. In the meantime we either eat the cost of replacement/support or we don't. Those that do try and steer the industry with our paying power, but at the end of day when I can source a replacement part for $2.30 plus ratio of shipping it's hard not just kicking the can down the street to get through the day.

I'm sure it's possible to make a compact switch that will last a thousand years, no one wants to pay $100 for it.

Relays are cool, but decent ones cost money, and they typically pull more power and require supporting circuitry over non-relay options.

I've also been looking at really low on resistance (less than one ohm) mosfet switching solutions, but that ushers in another realm of problems (crosstalk being the biggest thorn in my side) and I cannot say that they are transparent in terms of reflected load as yet. So the troubling aspect of cheap sexy switches is hard to pass up.

I think I'm done with the 4PDT footswitches though, I'll shunt sideband stuff with solid state switching from here on out.

crochambeau wrote: Small builders have to fight against the disposable culture that super big industries have cultivated on a day to day basis.

I'm gonna start the Slow Switch movement.

crochambeau wrote: I'm sure it's possible to make a compact switch that will last a thousand years, no one wants to pay $100 for it.

there must be a middle ground of switch durability though.

The DuMont switches are much nicer in hand, and have better connectors, a softer click, rated for a lot more actuation than the standard, etc...but I have not opened one or thoroughly tested them enough to say via actual experience. They run about $14 a piece if not buying in bulk.

Chankgeez wrote:

crochambeau wrote: I'm sure it's possible to make a compact switch that will last a thousand years, no one wants to pay $100 for it.

there must be a middle ground of switch durability though.

https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanica ... ?P=1yxr5xk

These Carling switches might be a decent middle ground between my fantastic spec and reality, but at $30 a pop I'm letting someone else do the experimenting.

..though honestly, when I've purchased E-Switch (in toggle) I've been very satisfied with feel/etc. I don't think I've had to replace any unless someone flipped their table at a gig (that's only happened once, and I forget what I had installed originally). But they are about 2.5 time the cost of the functional equivalent at lovemyswitches.com, so that will take some research/destructive test in order to prove.

What's the source on those DuMont switches?

I had one of those Carling go bad after using the pedal twice. I seem to remember they had a bad reputation for a bit. Most of them have been fine though. Could be the install and getting em to hot.

4PDT always had a reputation for being unreliable. Most of my word of mouth information is pretty old though. I think hirofumi uses that odd brand of 4PDT on LAL stuff. The same ones sobbat used.

What are the newer Maxon True Bypass pedals using? A relay? I can't really find any good shots of the switch board. Might have to open up my flanger. They claim in the manual that the switching requires a large milliamp surge upon startup (or else it may not work properly) and then operates at like a negligible amount of ma. Seems odd to me. They've been dang reliable for years though.

The stomp switches for brights on old cars seem to work well too, but they are probably spst or something. Speaking of cars, if you really want to go all out and have the space, something like a car ignition rotary type switch tied an actuator/spring setup would be repairable, adjustable and reliable...but probably wouldn't leave any space in a normal Hammond enclosure.

crochambeau wrote:What's the source on those DuMont switches?

Apologies, I spelled it wrong...DeMont, made in Japan. Lovesmyswitches has them but you can probably go direct to DeMont Guitars as well.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1QcjsjjtRc[/youtube]

Question. I need a barefoot button, but I wanna order the right one to avoid fuckin' up my pedal's footswitch, lol. It's just a Holy Grail Nano. Which ones work for that?

The Holy Grail Nano looks like it would take a v1 button.

This thread... Um look I don't know about the effect or well appeal of these switch cozies but I have been using pedals for over 25 years and I've never broken a switch. I think you guys are either doing it wrong or the quality of switches is getting bad..