ilovefuzz.com

Chankgeez wrote:

Jesus Was a Robot wrote:I guess when I started to develop my own pedal it kind of disgusted me. I found out how much some people's margins are, which is fine, I'm glad they are making it. I just don't think that some of the pedals equal the price.

Like, if you make a three knob fucking fuzz/delay or whatever, I don't want to pay 300 dollars for that.

I agree with that to some extent, but you weren't going to try making a run of having it be your primary source of income. That definitely changes things.

IIRC, you also ran into development delays. That adds cost as well.

I think there's a lot of good info in crochambeau's post.

Primary source of income? Oh god no. Absolutely not. I'd never bank on something like that. I can't. I'm happy for those that can and do, but they are much more savvy than myself. I would have loved for it to work out, sure, but it didn't. I did run into delays for sure, but it didn't cost me that much more.

I'm not trying to down play the development side at all. Some pedals are totally worth their price in gold. Others are not. Some are half baked ideas that take almost no R&D and others are labors of love that people work years on.

My thought process moves more towards the gradual raise of prices in general. It seems like theirs been a raise in pedal prices by certain brands way more than others. I'm being vague to not offend, but maybe I should stop doing that.


If I spend 400 bucks on a pedal, I expect it to do a lot.

actual wrote:'Tis capitalism biotch. If the makers of the pedals in the upper price bracket don't sell, they'll fold eventually, but as long as people keep buying, they can and should charge whatever the hell they want. And you should go find something else to get disgusted by.

Nah. I'm disgusted with some builders. I'm allowed to do that. I'm a consumer.

I will say, I obviously (DUH) agree that they can charge what they want.

My point was, are we ok with that.

This is about the CONSUMER and the builders.

Jesus Was a Robot wrote: I did run into delays for sure, but it didn't cost me that much more.

It might've if you'd've brought it all the way to market.

Jesus Was a Robot wrote: raise in pedal prices by certain brands way more than others. I'm being vague to not offend, but maybe I should stop doing that.

Yeah, difficult to say without knowing the specifics. Maybe their rent went way up or something? There may be factors we may not know about.
(My internet provider just upped my bill $30.)

Jesus Was a Robot wrote: If I spend 400 bucks on a pedal, I expect it to do a lot.

Yeah, I agree. I can't afford $400 pedals unless I sell stuff to raise the funds.

Yea I agree with all you've said.

I guess, because I'm thinking of simplifying, I'm inclined to not ever go down the same route again. I could see myself ordering custom pedals and paying for them (meaning a higher price tag pedal), but not stuff that will be made in the thousands.

I love my small builders, and for the most part, all the ILF builders are still super affordable. So that's awesome.

Jesus Was a Robot wrote:

actual wrote:'Tis capitalism biotch. If the makers of the pedals in the upper price bracket don't sell, they'll fold eventually, but as long as people keep buying, they can and should charge whatever the hell they want. And you should go find something else to get disgusted by.

Nah. I'm disgusted with some builders. I'm allowed to do that. I'm a consumer.

I will say, I obviously (DUH) agree that they can charge what they want.

My point was, are we ok with that.

This is about the CONSUMER and the builders.

Of course you are allowed feel however you feel, but it doesn't matter whether you or other people are 'ok' with it or not, as long as some people are. You have the option to buy or not to buy. Having a circlejerk complaining over people trying to make money is futile.

Jesus Was a Robot wrote: In my defense, I figured since it had so many views and only one snarky comment, that no one was really interested. I got gun shy, so that's my fault. Apologies.

Cheers, glad to hear your points. It is an interesting thread.

actual wrote:

Jesus Was a Robot wrote:

actual wrote:'Tis capitalism biotch. If the makers of the pedals in the upper price bracket don't sell, they'll fold eventually, but as long as people keep buying, they can and should charge whatever the hell they want. And you should go find something else to get disgusted by.

Nah. I'm disgusted with some builders. I'm allowed to do that. I'm a consumer.

I will say, I obviously (DUH) agree that they can charge what they want.

My point was, are we ok with that.

This is about the CONSUMER and the builders.

Of course you are allowed feel however you feel, but it doesn't matter whether you or other people are 'ok' with it or not, as long as some people are. You have the option to buy or not to buy. Having a circlejerk complaining over people trying to make money is futile.

It wasn’t meant to be a circle jerk to complain about pricing. I was curious about people’s opinions, including builders. If I wanted a circle jerk, I’d wouldn’t have asked for builders opinions.

Also, it does matter what people are ok with. They are the comsumers who pay said builders bills.

If you don’t like the topic, the door is that way bro.

I typed up a second rather long winded response and then deleted it all.

As the saying goes, it's worth what someone is willing to pay. I think the idea is to sell more than just one though.

I'm notoriously cheap, except with guitars.. I'd also say that I'm typically pretty happy to buy from small builders. 200$ for a Copilot effect, totally worth. $200 for a Boss effect.. Nah. No thanks.

No Nu Screamer for you?

Echo'ing the same sentiments. Craftsmanship goes a long way.

While I understand the desire to be non-specific so as not to be one of those dudes who calls out certain companies, I have a hard time contextualizing this without specifics.

Yeah, there are plenty of companies (let's say DBA or Zvex) who are charging $180-270 for a fuzz pedal. You're probably paying for a lot more than the pedal. To stick with DBA for the sake of example, you're paying for all the people they hire to build pedals, their rent in Queens, "free" repairs, etc.

Then there are dudes like Dr. Sci Ryan doing it all themselves and probably undercharging really. I don't really get how he has so many rad ideas for pedals, actually makes them available, builds them, develops more, and then charges less than $300 for it. That seems impossible to me.
Chase Bliss might seem super expensive off the bat too but the fact that Joel is putting out one or two new pedals a year consistently is pretty ridiculous. If the alternative is that I have to build my own digital brain for an analog circuit, then I'm going to shell out the extra cash. I don't have that kind of time, nor do I want to put the effort into designing it.

There are definitely small builders that aren't Joel or Ryan doing much simpler stuff for the same price, but I don't think they are selling as many pedals as it might seem like. Boutique pedals are still pretty niche in the grand scheme of the music industry and small companies start and stop every single day. I stopped trying to build shit a couple years ago because I realized I wasn't really contributing anything new and the stress of building, selling, and "designing" pedals all at once can wear a person down (also I'm still relatively young and dumb).

Also instruments are often way more than the sum of their parts or even their sound. It's often about how they make you feel, and feelings can be hard to put a price on. Clearly as you, Jwar, are reprioritizing pedals, your feelings are changing. Maybe the price of those feelings is lower. It doesn't take a $500 pedal to make you happy, in fact it makes you unhappy. And that's honestly pretty lucky as I see it. It sucks when your happiness is expensive.


**This post might not make a ton of sense as a whole but I'm trying dammit. I've got a lot of thoughts that I can't articulate after a long day of work.

^^^Made sense to me buddy!

Jesus Was a Robot wrote:

actual wrote:

Jesus Was a Robot wrote:

actual wrote:'Tis capitalism biotch. If the makers of the pedals in the upper price bracket don't sell, they'll fold eventually, but as long as people keep buying, they can and should charge whatever the hell they want. And you should go find something else to get disgusted by.

Nah. I'm disgusted with some builders. I'm allowed to do that. I'm a consumer.

I will say, I obviously (DUH) agree that they can charge what they want.

My point was, are we ok with that.

This is about the CONSUMER and the builders.

Of course you are allowed feel however you feel, but it doesn't matter whether you or other people are 'ok' with it or not, as long as some people are. You have the option to buy or not to buy. Having a circlejerk complaining over people trying to make money is futile.

It wasn’t meant to be a circle jerk to complain about pricing. I was curious about people’s opinions, including builders. If I wanted a circle jerk, I’d wouldn’t have asked for builders opinions.

Also, it does matter what people are ok with. They are the comsumers who pay said builders bills.

If you don’t like the topic, the door is that way bro.

It doesn't matter, in the sense that as long as some people are willing to pay whatever these disgusting pedalmakers are charging, then they will stay afloat. If these builders continue to raise their prices beyond the point of rationality, the natural effect will be that people stop buying from them. To me it doesn't make sense to get emotional (ie. feel disgusted) about these guys, unless the issue is that you actually want what they're making, in which case the issue is you.

My main grief was with the following:

IMO some are pushing the boundaries of what is ok to sell for. If they get away with a high price once, it's ok to do it a third or a forth time. Re-using the same exact feature over and over again doesn't seem to sway most either.

This might be a good ol case of me getting caught up in semantics, but you using phrases like "pushing the boundaries for what is ok" and "...get away with" sounds like you think there' is or should be some moral code these guys should be following when it comes to pricing, but the only code is what people are willing to pay.


I guess I sorta like this topic? I might've worded my thoughts somewhat brashly, but take it with a grain of salt, as always.

This is sort of similar to the recent debate about W&C Russian Muffs VS the new EHX one. $99 vs what, $225 for "the same thing"? I have a tall font I bought recently, I had to wait a while for it to hit the used market for a reasonable price because I cannot justify the cost of a new one.

Most "hot" boutique pedals keep their value, so yeah its rare to see them hit the used market for less than 10-15% off the retail price.

But I echo the sentiments about how it is sort of useless to wait for a used pedal to hit the market when the prices aren't going to be significantly different than a new one.

Also yes, seeing the number of $400+ reverbs is hard on my brain.

You need to make another tinder-esq app like you did for the doom thread

weird rant probably - as for pedal prices/costs - everyone's situation is different. different motivations, different development needs, different production methods, different standards and/or costs of living, different lifestyles, etc. more development is needed for more novel and unique effects, especially when it comes to interfacing with digital devices, etc. and i think there will usually be a premium added to those more complex offerings - hence the $400+ pedals. it's a tricky business for many reasons and no matter what running a business is a difficult endeavor. some people are obviously going to exploit the market and overcharge while most will do what they feel is right for their own situation. i think it's best to simply support those you believe in.

greyscales' previous comment was on point by the way.