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Christophe wrote:

rustywire wrote:

Christophe wrote:... (it's hard to describe a sound, but, you know, when delay sounds more like music lying around what you're playing, rather than just repeats? and they all seem capable of great experimental/crazy sounds)...

DMM. You want a DMM

Shit. ILF stopped emailing me about new posts on this thread. So I've missed a few posts... Well I've never owned a dm2 or a DMM, the most revered delays ever. (by the way a friend of mine showed me the Berhinger version, "vintage time machine", and it sounds fat!). I'm sure I would dig these... I kind of avoid the question of buying a DMM this way: it sounds great but it has left its print already. Why reproduce this sound forever? We need to make today's music, right?
I mean, that's another question about delay: dm2s and DMMs, are they just good, period, (regardless of music genres etc...), or are we just so hooked on nostalgia that we have a hard time moving on to something else? I'm pretty sure that in a 30-year time, people will consider the Boss space echo (even if it's a remake) like the best thing that ever happened to delay in a stomp box.
That being said, the search is endless, I might fall back on a DMM in the future...

I'll chime in cause I'm familiar with the dmm and DM-3. The latter is just awesome in it's simplicity. Totally a personal thing, but the color and grit of the repeats are the shit imo. Dark and murky, but not TOO washy or fucked up, unlike a lot of other bbd delays. The beauty of the dmm lies in the warble, and the warmth you get even when the repeats are barely audible.

There's way to many awesome newer delays based on those too though. No point in dwelling over vintage stuff (or reissues for that matter) when there's a of improved clones...Right?

Christophe wrote:

rustywire wrote:

Christophe wrote:... (it's hard to describe a sound, but, you know, when delay sounds more like music lying around what you're playing, rather than just repeats? and they all seem capable of great experimental/crazy sounds)...

DMM. You want a DMM

Shit. ILF stopped emailing me about new posts on this thread. So I've missed a few posts... Well I've never owned a dm2 or a DMM, the most revered delays ever. (by the way a friend of mine showed me the Berhinger version, "vintage time machine", and it sounds fat!). I'm sure I would dig these... I kind of avoid the question of buying a DMM this way: it sounds great but it has left its print already. Why reproduce this sound forever? We need to make today's music, right?
I mean, that's another question about delay: dm2s and DMMs, are they just good, period, (regardless of music genres etc...), or are we just so hooked on nostalgia that we have a hard time moving on to something else? I'm pretty sure that in a 30-year time, people will consider the Boss space echo (even if it's a remake) like the best thing that ever happened to delay in a stomp box.
That being said, the search is endless, I might fall back on a DMM in the future...

Well, the electric guitar and bass have been around since the 1930s and 40s. Why reproduce that sound forever?
Tube amps are even older. How many tubescreamer clones and derivatives are there on the market? Tonebenders?
You get my point, no need to start talking acoustic drums

Yes, they're just good.
2 players taking turns on the exact same rig can easily sound more different than alike. Or vice versa.
User is the single most dynamic variable in the equation. For a long time I used to eschew ubiquitous art supplies to see what I could do with lesser known and/or unorthodox items. Realized I was only rowing against the current and doing things the hard way, even putting cart before horse. Now I embrace the challenge of taking familiar things in new directions...in addition to using whatever is ready available and works for me.

"taking familiar things in new directions" I agree with that. You can use a wha pedal without sounding like hendrix. I was more thinking in terms of DMM is The Edge's signature, Fuzz Factory is Muse, Whammy is Morello. Like you said, user is the most dynamic variable. Guitar remains guitar. But a pedal is something else. It may age well or not, or you can be fed up with a sound you've heard too much.
Sometimes you also need new gear to make things fresh. I love my Diamond memory lane, there's a lot of music to be made with that, without feeling the "trademark" of someone else when you play... (it's all in your mind, but still, it affects your playing...)
I'm still not totally convinced by clones by the way. Each time I've paired an original with its clone, it sounded different, and different enough to inspire different things...
(Rest assured, I'm not arguing here, this is very interesting)
Speaking of DMM, I'm currently working in a studio and they have an old DMM.. (funny uh?) I'm gonna give it a try during the week-end and... who knows? ;-)

It wasn't my intent to come off as contentious. I do get where you're coming from.
DMM may have once been a staple of The Edge, but he also relied heavily on Vox AC30s and most specifically dotted nths in his playing.
This was also at a time when they were the only delay+modulation in production. That was 30 years ago+ and since then he's gone to using a complex rack setup; and lo and behold The Edge still sounds like The Edge. There have been numerous users of the DMM (most recently Kim Gordon) who sound nothing akin to that signature sound you associate with the DMM. It's mostly The Edge.
As for clones...it mostly depends on the builder. Their parts selection, circuit-building ability and most crucially their ear. Again user [in this case engineer] being the singlemost deterministic variable. All are not created equal, there are different ways to build a mousetrap.

See if you can sit down to spend some time with the DMM, for an uninterrupted half hour by yourself, with nothing other than your favorite fuzz pedal (+instrument) to toggle in front. IMO the real magic happens at settings I've never associated with The Edge or any other player. High feedback. String bending with it is great fun. Maybe stick a looper in between the fuzz & delay so you can really get knob twiddlin. It's revelatory.

I associate the edge with the Korg SDD-3000?

I saw the edge walking down the street once.

I yelled at him to pay royalties to this band:

[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rvwbQ9oMjxQ[/youtube]

Though I don't remember which song U2 ripped off right now. I forgot haha.

^that was fun

rustywire wrote:
DMM. You want a DMM

So I sat down with a DMM today. Indeed, beautiful stuff. You were right to mention it when I spoke of fat sound, music floating around rather than just repeats.
What struck me is that, besides delay, it adds this big warm enveloppe around your playing.
I was comparing it with my Malekko 616. In order to get as warm and large, I had to add a holy Grail to the Malekko, when the DMM could stand alone.
A major difference was the repeats: on the dmm, they were the exact replica of the dry signal (this accounts a lot for the dmm sound IMO), when the repeats on the malekko were enhancing the mids.
I was playing an old Sears/Silvertone amp. The tubes responded with more drive with the Malekko (which is always a pleasure). The DMM was very smooth. That's what I like most about it I think, a large but soft sound.
But it wouldn't come to mind -for me- to use it as a lofi delay (Pladask, Maude, Echo Dream 2... which is the kind of delay I'm looking for right now), it sounds more like a great "sound enhancer" to me... So I might wanna get one... but rather to replace the Malekko some day!

p.s.: Something else was revelatory here: the Malekko is advertised as bbd delay, full of vintage bliss. And it's a beautiful sound alright (it cuts through any mix, anytime, with style), but the way it drove the amp today, I thought "this is a modern delay", it's been made to suit today's needs/it is influenced by the way we wanna hear music today. It's not a classic bbd at all. And it's alright. It's just that I think pedal builders never advertise the real goal they're going after with a pedal. They dont really give you the lowdown on what they're aiming at. It's for you to find out. And it makes choosing even more difficult.

Cool. See if you can find out more about the DMM or snap a picture of it. Also keep in mind you can use it to overdrive an amp, or more so the repeats. The LEVEL controls its preamp, I think it gives +12dB above unity gain. The BLEND knob controls the Echo Out output between fully dry & fully wet. You should be able to get it as loud, if not louder than the Malekko.

Yeah, I saw that the level could be real loud. I was just pointing out that the Malekko (having just a dry/wet knob), was meant to be loud.

So I picked up a Maude, mostly from this thread. Really freaking love it. Now I'm curious: what will the cv do if I start using it. Thinking about picking up an Arf. I've wanted one forever and it sends cv signal, but I have no idea how the two will play together. Also looking at the twin stags. Tremolo/delay is so tasty, again just no idea how the cv would work.

Wow. I'm glad this thread helped you find a pedal you dig.

PeteeBee wrote:So I picked up a Maude, mostly from this thread. Really freaking love it. Now I'm curious: what will the cv of I start using it. Thinking about picking up an Arf. I've wanted one forever and it sends cv signal, but I have no idea how the two will play together. Also looking at the twin stags. Tremolo/delay is so tasty, again just no idea how the cv would work.

You need to check the range of CV expected / sent from the pedals. Sadly, pedals manufacturers tend not to specify that.
Also, make sure that the pedal that receives the CV is designed to handle voltages beyond the expected range. And frankly, if they don't their design is flawed, in my opinion.

oscillateur wrote:

PeteeBee wrote:So I picked up a Maude, mostly from this thread. Really freaking love it. Now I'm curious: what will the cv of I start using it. Thinking about picking up an Arf. I've wanted one forever and it sends cv signal, but I have no idea how the two will play together. Also looking at the twin stags. Tremolo/delay is so tasty, again just no idea how the cv would work.

You need to check the range of CV expected / sent from the pedals. Sadly, pedals manufacturers tend not to specify that.
Also, make sure that the pedal that receives the CV is designed to handle voltages beyond the expected range. And frankly, if they don't their design is flawed, in my opinion.

The Maude is designed for 0-5volts, but I can't find any info on how much current the twin stags or arf would send. Kind of a bummer since this is such an expensive thing to guess at and try to figure out. I'll email dwarfcraft.

My english is failing me here : do you mean the standard Roland exp pedal doesn't work with the Meet Maude?