ilovefuzz.com

i agree. his prices are kinda ridiculous.

randel_07 wrote:i agree. his prices are kinda ridiculous.

+1

I just think the point is, it's not necessary to dump in his thread because of ethics, pricing or anything else. Unless he's trying to scam people, which I don't think is the case. Maybe send the guy an email if you think what he's doing is wrong. Ya know? I don't think he was really disrespecting (or trying too) anyone by posting here. Dudes prolly just trying to feed his kids.

I do remember someone showing a crazy 3 setting looper device this guy made. Looked pretty cool. AND orignal!

McHaven wrote:Unless you all decide to attack any builders who you think aren't "cool" enough. Lots of fantastic builders start out with clones. Maybe if you guys were a bit more open and friendly and encouraged any sort of interested user, we could see this guy grow into an original and innovative builder. Yeah, I doubt he'll come back now, since this forum has decided that its members are way too cool to accept anything but whats here already.

Umm. I don't think anyone here qualifies as cool (except maybe Brettski).

The problem is the way the guy has approached the forum. Most people here don't get too bent outta shape too quickly. That should tell you something.

i think the plain metal enclosures are quite fetching actually. & if FF Zvexters never came up for a hundo occasionally on craigslist like they sometimes do here, then i cannot say i would be against buying this dudes pedals. or a Dano TOD.

supply price will eventually meet demand price. this is not a "morality" issue. it is just basic economics.

McHaven wrote:Unless you all decide to attack any builders who you think aren't "cool" enough. Lots of fantastic builders start out with clones. Maybe if you guys were a bit more open and friendly and encouraged any sort of interested user, we could see this guy grow into an original and innovative builder. Yeah, I doubt he'll come back now, since this forum has decided that its members are way too cool to accept anything but whats here already.

Don't be such a dick.

As PP said, he didn't back up his claims with clips or video. And by the way, 1 post does not = "interested user" He could have introduced himself in the "INTRODUCE yourself" thread and informed us that one of his hobbies includes building clones of pedals and that he would sell to anyone who's interested. Instead he chose to place an ad and then he fucked off. All the other builders here would gladly defend their products if someone questioned their credibility.

IMHO.

hazelwould wrote:I just think the point is, it's not necessary to dump in his thread because of ethics, pricing or anything else. Unless he's trying to scam people, which I don't think is the case. Maybe send the guy an email if you think what he's doing is wrong. Ya know? I don't think he was really disrespecting (or trying too) anyone by posting here. Dudes prolly just trying to feed his kids.

He is trying to scam people in claiming a few of zvex's designs as his own.
Aside from that, zvex is also just some dude trying to feed his family.
Shit on zvex pricing all you want, he runs an international company with loads of people working for him now who iirc(at least the american employees) all receive full benefits,
all with their own families and bills and problems.

This guy claims he could make anything...but he decided to make carbon copy zvex/mxr/loopmaster clones and charge an arm and a leg? Please.
To make a comparison to us musicians, it's sorta like making a cover band that plays the material of existing touring bands (and charging near large venue prices), all while never writing their own music.
Sure it pays the bills, sure if you close your eyes it can get you most of the way there...
but really, what's the point if you aren't doing your own thing.

We could argue "oh he's just getting started, maybe he'll come up with something unique",
but I remember this guy being around for a while now, and it just seems he's only added a few more clones to his belt over time.

I am seriously offended by this guy. I'm not going to prescribe my morality on anyone and say " DO NOT BUY ANY OF HIS PRODUCTS or i'll quit the forum and sell my devi pedals"
But I will voice my opinion. I'm very interested in the feelings other people have on any matter and I hope that people will do so.
(perhaps it's time I finally made my post in the playhouse about this)

If this guy came in shilling devi's for $85 shipped (yes about a 9% discount, that's exactly what our new friend is offering off zvex retail) I'm sure the reaction would have been very different.
It's important to keep perspective. Just because you hate zvex doesn't mean he deserves to be so blatantly ripped off at such criminal prices.

tl;dr? well you've probably already trained yourself to ignore my posts...so here's a (not-so)random image:

Yeah, I agree.

I think what pisses me off about this is that these pedals aren't anything interesting. They are rip offs of ZVEX.

Second, I don't agree that you could make the claim that anyone who makes pedals or anyone on the forum is "someone I haven't heard of."

If someone has a bunch of posts, had their work carried by a couple of third-party websites, or if I could read some testimonials, or if they had some youtube clips I could see, or if they were selling through ebay....there are a lot of ways for someone who makes pedals to prove to me that they are "the real deal."

Shilling a bunch of $200 clones of $250 pedals on a first post in the forum is not one of them.

Why the pent up angst? I guess it's hard playing the good "buddy" guy all the time. I really don't understand your hostility as I am merely voicing my opinion. And I agreed with most (at least 90%) of what was said, I just didn't agree with how it took place. The ":p" was a joke, friendly poking at what many other small other builders have said.

Chill dood! Were all here to enjoy the ride. And frankly this dude didn't even cross my mind past reading and responding to this thread.

morningstaru wrote:

hazelwould wrote:I just think the point is, it's not necessary to dump in his thread because of ethics, pricing or anything else. Unless he's trying to scam people, which I don't think is the case. Maybe send the guy an email if you think what he's doing is wrong. Ya know? I don't think he was really disrespecting (or trying too) anyone by posting here. Dudes prolly just trying to feed his kids.

He is trying to scam people in claiming a few of zvex's designs as his own.
Aside from that, zvex is also just some dude trying to feed his family.
Shit on zvex pricing all you want, he runs an international company with loads of people working for him now who iirc(at least the american employees) all receive full benefits,
all with their own families and bills and problems.

This guy claims he could make anything...but he decided to make carbon copy zvex/mxr/loopmaster clones and charge an arm and a leg? Please.
To make a comparison to us musicians, it's sorta like making a cover band that plays the material of existing touring bands (and charging near large venue prices), all while never writing their own music.
Sure it pays the bills, sure if you close your eyes it can get you most of the way there...
but really, what's the point if you aren't doing your own thing.

We could argue "oh he's just getting started, maybe he'll come up with something unique",
but I remember this guy being around for a while now, and it just seems he's only added a few more clones to his belt over time.

I am seriously offended by this guy. I'm not going to prescribe my morality on anyone and say " DO NOT BUY ANY OF HIS PRODUCTS or i'll quit the forum and sell my devi pedals"
But I will voice my opinion. I'm very interested in the feelings other people have on any matter and I hope that people will do so.
(perhaps it's time I finally made my post in the playhouse about this)

If this guy came in shilling devi's for $85 shipped (yes about a 9% discount, that's exactly what our new friend is offering off zvex retail) I'm sure the reaction would have been very different.
It's important to keep perspective. Just because you hate zvex doesn't mean he deserves to be so blatantly ripped off at such criminal prices.

tl;dr? well you've probably already trained yourself to ignore my posts...so here's a (not-so)random image:

Oh I just quoted you to reference the scam part...I think he is pulling a scam with his advertising. Otherwise I wasn't taking any digs.
I enjoy discussion, and obviously I have opinions on the matter, but I encourage dissent and appreciate the input as it helps me better understand things. Apologies if it comes off as hostile.

My issue here is I simply don't see where any of this really benefits us as consumers.
I'd love nothing more than to have the OP come back into the thread, school us with some demos and total own me with the tweaks he's done to zvex's designs.
I'd seriously be happy.

morningstaru wrote:Oh I just quoted you to reference the scam part...I think he is pulling a scam with his advertising. Otherwise I wasn't taking any digs.
I enjoy discussion, and obviously I have opinions on the matter, but I encourage dissent and appreciate the input as it helps me better understand things. Apologies if it comes off as hostile.

My issue here is I simply don't see where any of this really benefits us as consumers.

I understand man... I hear ya!

Just felt like you were taking jabs at me... No hard feelings.

I just bought a Behringer pedal in this forum last week. Is that okay? Or is it just Zvex clones that ruffle feathers? Or can you still sell clones here as long as you didn't do any of the work yourself?

It's easy to make blanket statements about cloning in general, but we're discussing a specific builder's business practices.
The fact is cloning does walk a fine line.

Facts:
He's advertising them as ZVEX fuzz factories and the box of rock. Not "inspired by" or in the "style of", but as the real thing.
He's claiming his product "sounds better" without backing up the claim with details about the mojo filled parts he's used.
He's not charging behringer/dano prices, he's charging zvex prices.

There are a number of shady things going on here. If he fixed his advertising and came down on the price I'm sure he'd have a very successful business on his hands.
Hell I'd probably buy a few (especially a machine clone if one was offered for parts+labor).

and should the mods be scared at this point, I'm having a wonderful time but I'll shut up for a while.
I've been doing a full setup on my guitar this whole time (heavier strings are br00tz) and it's finally ready to be played

morningstaru wrote:Oh I just quoted you to reference the scam part...I think he is pulling a scam with his advertising. Otherwise I wasn't taking any digs.
I enjoy discussion, and obviously I have opinions on the matter, but I encourage dissent and appreciate the input as it helps me better understand things. Apologies if it comes off as hostile.

My issue here is I simply don't see where any of this really benefits us as consumers.
I'd love nothing more than to have the OP come back into the thread, school us with some demos and total own me with the tweaks he's done to zvex's designs.
I'd seriously be happy.

That's pretty much what I am thinking.
Come in and show us.
Then maybe we'll love you too.

BTW I'm ignoring your post.

MM

morningstaru wrote:Hell I'd probably buy a few (especially a machine clone if one was offered for parts+labor).
:

If your after a machine clone, i'l do you one for the cost of parts P&P and a few beers if you want, that's not me pedaling my wears that's just cause I understand Zvex prices are high and theres no vexter Machine, just an offer really. (Waits for the flood of hate )

Scruffie wrote:

morningstaru wrote:Hell I'd probably buy a few (especially a machine clone if one was offered for parts+labor).
:

If your after a machine clone, i'l do you one for the cost of parts P&P and a few beers if you want, that's not me pedaling my wears that's just cause I understand Zvex prices are high and theres no vexter Machine, just an offer really. (Waits for the flood of hate )

price?
i might be interested


ill give you a flood of condolences if vex sees that post and decides to rape you with the law O.o