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rfurtkamp wrote:

agiant wrote:I have the Mastery in my AVRI JM and the staytrem in my Squier bass VI, which solves all the intonation issues.

Consensus will be Mastery from folks who can't set up the stock ones or don't want a Jazzmaster to be a Jazzmaster.

^not true.

First of all, the Mastery does not change the character of the JM that much.

Second, the JM was designed to use heavy gauge strings. If you use .012 or heavier strings, the stock bridge is OK. Nevertheless it doesn't work well with < .012 (what most people use btw) and it's impossible to set it up. The Mastery solves this problem. It's expensive, but a $2000 guitar deserves it, I am very happy with it and .010 strings.

Do you think that Nels Cline and Bill Frisell can't set up their JMs or want them to be something else?

To be honest, I'm not sure, or they're trusting techs who have no experience with the offsets. Even good shops that was often true.

I've set up Jazzmasters and Jaguars for 25ish years, lowest I think I've ever dialed in in gauge was 8s or 9s. I use 10s personally (on everything).

Zero issues getting any of them ever running right providing the hardware was even vaguely in spec.

Also a case of both those dudes love an excuse to boutique or geek out on gear.



Some history:

When Leo was rolled out the Jazzmaster, he intended to market the guitar to Jazz players, hence the addition of the darker preset rhythm circuit. Because of this, the guitar was also designed with heavy-gauge flat-wound strings in mind. Back in the day, light guitar strings weren’t readily available, especially when it came to flats. That’s why you so often hear older guitarists talking about using a banjo string on the high E and moving the rest of the set over one string! Jazz players were often using sets as heavy as .014”, and .011” sets were considered pretty measly by comparison.

Yea, I'm well aware. Been playing offsets since the cheap days and the majority of the "left under a bed and forgotten" came into the shop with 12ish flats.

We used to replace the missing bridges or defective ones (latter being rare, but happend) with the Mustang bridges left in the parts drawer that had been gathering dust since the stone age.

When you want to use light strings on a Jazzmaster or Jaguar, you’re going to have to compensate somehow. You’ll need to increase the break angle and adjust the bridge, but if you’re going lighter than .011” sets you might also consider swapping out the bridge for those found on Fender Mustang guitars, which have a single, deep groove for each string. Or, you could go for the ultimate upgrade, the Mastery Bridge, but I’d make that recommendation to anyone regardless of string gauge. The Mastery Bridge is hands-down the best upgrade you can make to your Fender Offset guitar in my opinion. With it, you may still need a bit of a neck angle adjustment, but your strings will definitely stay on their saddles.

I can set up the junky bridge on a Squier VM Jag/Jazz to fly with 9s (done it twice now for friends). Didn't need a Mastery. Haven't needed many shims either.

The problem I've seen on the Mastery-equipped stuff is the resonance of the thing changed totally - it becomes much more like a hardtail no trem modern build.

So Elvis fucking Costello, the guy who plays with Bruce Springsteen, Queens of Stone Age and the rest can't find a competent gear tech. OK. Please, teach us how to set up the stock/mustang bridge with .010s in a JM. What's the secret? I mean, it can't be rocket science, there are not many variables: just two holes and some screws.

I recall setting up a VM Jag with the stock bridge (crappy old style) with 10s or 9s. No problem. I just setup a CP Jag with a T-O-M bridge, that was the most awkward intonation I've ever seen, and it has 9s or 10s on it as well.

agiant wrote: So Elvis fucking Costello, the guy who plays with Bruce Springsteen, Queens of Stone Age and the rest can't find a competent gear tech. OK. Please, teach us how to set up the stock/mustang bridge with .010s in a JM. What's the secret? I mean, it can't be rocket science, there are not many variables: just two holes and some screws.

Most of the time in the industry techs and roadies at that level are friends or friend of a friend. They're not hired for competence for a specific instrument type.

Setup is simple. Blue Loctite on bridge screws while adjusting intonation. Once it sets, it's good until you torque it out again. it WILL NOT go anywhere. Make sure the screws/holes are clear of any grease, foreign objects, etc. TL;DR: follow the instructions on the bottle.

Shim if absolutely necessary - I have cut up old credit cards, business cards, cardstock. Pop off neck, install until desired ration/string height is reached.

Adjust trem spring tension. That's a matter of taste, some folks like no give whatsoever, others want vibrato if you breathe on it funny. It'll do both. While there, can lithium grease the spring after doing some serious wanking (TWSS) to break in the spring. No strings required for this process.

Otherwise, it's set up like every other guitar I've ever played. Points of failure include the trem arm collet (have one on hand if you have several like I do) but that's something you can adjust as well with vise grips (to tighten) or metal circular punch/slightly larger than existing hole item to expand the collet trem arm hole. Here I can see the value if you're having issues with going with one of the custom collets or the screw-in type from the Classic Player and some modern Fender models as well, if you desire.

It's amazing, I also managed to do this without condescension. Until this point.

I do not trust artist endorsements, I never have. They'll promote anything for a buck, free sample, because they're friends with the owner, because it gets them some bonus press, etc. It is what it is.

Decades of players got by without a Staytrem or Mastery bridge on these guitars without going to SRV-style heavy strings.

Conventional wisdom, ironically, that I encountered in every dealer catering to vintage stuff who did the guitar show circuit pre-internet, was that the Mustangs and Jaguars and other 24" scale Fenders couldn't take the tension of heavier strings and 10s were as HIGH as you should go. I know, makes no sense, but these guys swore by it.

I didn't like how the he-man strings felt on the 24" things, so I didn't use them and stuck with my normal 10s, unless the only replacements I could find were 9s (which happened a lot more in the shredder era than today and again, no internet orders on tour then either).

Holy Schnikes wrote:The normal Staytrem won't be that wide but he makes a Bass VI version as well. Either way, you'll be able to get Bass VI intonation real close.

I'm glad you pointed this out, in my haste I didn't notice they made one specific for the bass vi, so I just ordered one could have saved on shipping. Thinking I might put the mastery tremolo and staytrem on the bass vi Now I just need to look into getting a new pickguard and a bridge pickup and and...

rfurtkamp wrote:Otherwise, it's set up like every other guitar I've ever played.

quite true. Thanks for posting this

finboy wrote:The correct answer is ALWAYS staytrem

Just ask this guy...

The guy whose signature model he gushes about in abundance does NOT have a Staytrem bridge, but rather a Jaguar one with Mustang saddles (probably because that's the replacement one of his other ones had possibly before he even got his hands on it, like a lot of them from Ye Olden Days?.......

"Jaguar bridge with Mustang® saddles, nylon post inserts for improved stability and chrome cover"

http://www.fender.com/guitars/jaguar/jo ... 16400.html

rfurtkamp wrote:
"Jaguar bridge with Mustang® saddles, nylon post inserts for improved stability and chrome cover"

http://www.fender.com/guitars/jaguar/jo ... 16400.html

that's what a stayterm is.

It's a Mustang bridge. Same as we swapped on when there were no other spares available.

Staytrem just markets it as their own.

But he's not using a Staytrem explicitly - which is the watchword along with Mastery as the be all and end all of bridge replacements on the Internets.

The originals work just fine. They really do.

Late to the party, so I'll probably just echo what's already been said...But I've been playing jazzmasters for more than a decade or so, and the reason why I stick to Mustang bridges:

A set of Mustang bridge saddles is dirt cheap, it's as close as you can get to the stock jazzmaster vibe (and aestethics, though that's not a huge deal to me personally), and it's a serious improvement over the shitty stock bridge. Never tried a Mastery/Staytrem, but if I'm ever back in a "tune down super low with .10s" fase, I might look for a used one. I'm kinda worry a Mastery might steal even the smallest bit of what I like about my jazzmaster, I'm one of those corksniffers who can't stand a TOM on a Jazzmaster. Also, a Mastery brigde in Europe costs about as much as a REALLY nice fuzz pedal. Or two.

DarkAxel wrote:ps: I got Graphtech saddles. Can intonate well with 011s except for the low E, stays in the saddles as well

I ordered a set of the Graphtech String Savers and just couldn't jibe with them. On the one hand they definitely seemed to increase the resonance, every time I hit a chord I felt it a lot more. On the other hand they robbed a lot of the high end from the guitars (tried them on a Jag and Mustang) and when you're in the Rowland S Howard school of thought you need all the screech you can get.

Yea, reason I *play* the Jaguar and Mustang over another guitar at that moment is the damn screech.

With stainless strings.

zzuFrepuS wrote:

rfurtkamp wrote:
"Jaguar bridge with Mustang® saddles, nylon post inserts for improved stability and chrome cover"

http://www.fender.com/guitars/jaguar/jo ... 16400.html

that's what a stayterm is.

A lot of people mix this up, but staytrem has their own manufactured saddles that look similar to mustang saddles, but aren't really mustang saddles at all. They are different sizes, the string grooves are shaped differently and in different locations for each string, and the intonation screws are offset a different amount on each saddle to prevent them from moving around. And there's nylon bushings on the intonation screws instead of springs as well. The only thing that the Johnny Mar Jag bridge shares with the staytrem are the nylon bushings on the legs.

So I would say the staytrem is similar to the mustang bridge in looks, but much more precisely engineered with some clever tricks to keep the saddles in place and keep everything rock solid. No messing around with loctite, no cutting intonation springs, no sinkage. It's the ultimate set-it-and-forget-it bridge and I love it

And you can just wrap plumber's tape around it to achieve the same 'doesn't move if you don't want it to", no need for fancy!

rfurtkamp wrote: no need for fancy!

but thats not fun
i sorta figured there would be some support for just using a stock fender mustang bridge but....i'm glad to hear people have good experiences with the staytrem and mastery, plus they are shiny new toys

Shiny new toys and you can advertise having them for the studio.

BITCHES EAT THAT SHIT UP YO