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i have a jmp 2203 and my bandmate has a mig100. very similar circuits and definitely in the same territory. his is heavily modded and is the best sounding sovtek i've heard. it's been modded to take el34's and has also had the output transformer replaced, and maybe the power transformer too, if i remember right. as well as generally good maintenance be a very good tech (who used to own the amp, btw). it sounds a lot crisper and cuts really well in addition to taking pedals like a champ. in general it's even more marshall i think than they originally were, which i'm sure is in no small way because of the tubes. i still like my jmp better, partly cause it's got 6550's, but i think it also has just a bit more of the classic marshall mid range bite. but his is a damn good amp and definitely real close to that sound. i think the mods are totally worth it, not to mention the transformers are notoriously fairly shitty on those so the upgrade is good for sound and greatly improves the reliability. his were replaced cause they broke, not just to mod the amp more. and i think these days one could find a good deal on a mig and perform the mods and still spend a good bit less than a real 2203 is going to cost. it took a little while of shit breaking and him getting it fixed to iron out all the reliability issues, but now he's got a great sounding and really reliable amp.

Dandolin wrote: In use and by what I know of their rep, the Migs are usually leaning slightly Fender from Marshall, so darkness is not a universal descriptor. FWIW, I think the Migs were once awesome deals used, but the prices lately don't line up with my memory of how they sounded...it's happening more and more with older amps--the second and third waves are being priced like the legends used to...it's like colleges--there's now a hundred colleges (or more) that charge Harvard money....

This is totally true. My 100H sounded great for $450 but I wouldn't buy another one for like $700 or whatever.

D.o.S. wrote:

Dandolin wrote: In use and by what I know of their rep, the Migs are usually leaning slightly Fender from Marshall, so darkness is not a universal descriptor. FWIW, I think the Migs were once awesome deals used, but the prices lately don't line up with my memory of how they sounded...it's happening more and more with older amps--the second and third waves are being priced like the legends used to...it's like colleges--there's now a hundred colleges (or more) that charge Harvard money....

This is totally true. My 100H sounded great for $450 but I wouldn't buy another one for like $700 or whatever.

Yea, I think Dandolin is speaking some truth. It was really awesome at the time and for 200 but I really like my Sunn Sorado better. Still a cool head to have around but it is kinda crazy to pay 700 for one. I don't think I would ever part with my Sovtek.

Dandolin wrote: I agree about Tristan's earlier statement about the Direct Drive--he really knows his stuff and has a critical ear so is very helpful for these kinds of questions. I wouldn't spend too much time on the Direct Drive, myself.

The Direct Drive Low Gain, otoh, gets a lot closer to the early non-hotrodded Marshall tones in my book--I enjoyed DDLG infinitely more than the OG DD--though, and I think this is a signature of many Barber pedals, the overall feel is somewhat "tight" even within the super-tweakable parameters provided by Barber. I enjoyed that quality quite a lot, but it might not be your cuppa. And the pedal is not an explicit amp simulator by any means, so criticizing it for being "tight" when your definition of "Marshal" isn't is kinda beside the point. Again--who knows if it floats your boat, but it might be worth checking out, or the current Barber alternative. At least they ain't super pricy/unobtainium despite being discontinued....

Others that I've enjoyed for lower-gained but still crunchy Marshall tones are the Box of Rock/Distortron and Menatone Working Man's Blue.

I'll have to check out the DDLG - I love my Silver LTD. The Menatone stuff caught my attention today as well - specifically the King, but I haven't had time to sit and listen to clips yet.

I need to check out some Distortron clips as well after all the positive stuff about it in here. The DLS is sinking further down the list with all of this lack of gain talk - is everyone talking about the mkiii? Didn't they add more gain in that one??

lordgalvar wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:

Dandolin wrote: In use and by what I know of their rep, the Migs are usually leaning slightly Fender from Marshall, so darkness is not a universal descriptor. FWIW, I think the Migs were once awesome deals used, but the prices lately don't line up with my memory of how they sounded...it's happening more and more with older amps--the second and third waves are being priced like the legends used to...it's like colleges--there's now a hundred colleges (or more) that charge Harvard money....

This is totally true. My 100H sounded great for $450 but I wouldn't buy another one for like $700 or whatever.

Yea, I think Dandolin is speaking some truth. It was really awesome at the time and for 200 but I really like my Sunn Sorado better. Still a cool head to have around but it is kinda crazy to pay 700 for one. I don't think I would ever part with my Sovtek.

I had to sell it during a period of unemployment. It was not awesome. At least it went to a fuzzbreaux tho

D.o.S. wrote: I had to sell it during a period of unemployment. It was not awesome. At least it went to a fuzzbreaux tho

Yea, did the same thing with my old Moog Rogue, juno, and my carvin 4x12. My wife talked me into keeping the sovtek (sentimental). I feel better when gear goes to the right places too (screened the craigslist people as best I could for the Moog...went to a dude that owned a repair shop..it worked fine, but you know, good hands).

t-rey wrote:

Dandolin wrote: I agree about Tristan's earlier statement about the Direct Drive--he really knows his stuff and has a critical ear so is very helpful for these kinds of questions. I wouldn't spend too much time on the Direct Drive, myself.

The Direct Drive Low Gain, otoh, gets a lot closer to the early non-hotrodded Marshall tones in my book--I enjoyed DDLG infinitely more than the OG DD--though, and I think this is a signature of many Barber pedals, the overall feel is somewhat "tight" even within the super-tweakable parameters provided by Barber. I enjoyed that quality quite a lot, but it might not be your cuppa. And the pedal is not an explicit amp simulator by any means, so criticizing it for being "tight" when your definition of "Marshal" isn't is kinda beside the point. Again--who knows if it floats your boat, but it might be worth checking out, or the current Barber alternative. At least they ain't super pricy/unobtainium despite being discontinued....

Others that I've enjoyed for lower-gained but still crunchy Marshall tones are the Box of Rock/Distortron and Menatone Working Man's Blue.

I'll have to check out the DDLG - I love my Silver LTD. The Menatone stuff caught my attention today as well - specifically the King, but I haven't had time to sit and listen to clips yet.

I need to check out some Distortron clips as well after all the positive stuff about it in here. The DLS is sinking further down the list with all of this lack of gain talk - is everyone talking about the mkiii? Didn't they add more gain in that one??

i was probably not speaking of the mkiii. i was speaking from what i saw years ago when i was on a big quest for marshall flavored dirt. I may have tried one out at PGS at one time or another but my memory is primarily from demos. i think i was far into chasing another rainbow by the time the mkiii came out and it had long since fallen off my radar. so my experience is somewhat distant and not at all current so you shouldn't let it hold much weight at all. this was at a time some years ago when it was very very hard to find many current options in the high gain non fuzz dirt category from smallish builders. lots of fuzz and lots of medium to low gain OD's out there and a barren wasteland for distortion. things are a lot better now. it was also part of why i liked the riot so much when i first found it. it was kind of a rare bird at the time and i liked it better than my crunch box and could hardly find another contender. I think builders have really come around a lot more to the idea that there's a desire for that and there's more options now, which would make it make a lot of sense that CB would throw a lot more gain into later versions of that pedal.

How about the BAT Revelation Superlead/Superbass pedals? I've never tried one, and would love to put it up against my Bugera 1960 and see how close it is.

misterstomach wrote:i was probably not speaking of the mkiii. i was speaking from what i saw years ago when i was on a big quest for marshall flavored dirt. I may have tried one out at PGS at one time or another but my memory is primarily from demos. i think i was far into chasing another rainbow by the time the mkiii came out and it had long since fallen off my radar. so my experience is somewhat distant and not at all current so you shouldn't let it hold much weight at all. this was at a time some years ago when it was very very hard to find many current options in the high gain non fuzz dirt category from smallish builders. lots of fuzz and lots of medium to low gain OD's out there and a barren wasteland for distortion. things are a lot better now. it was also part of why i liked the riot so much when i first found it. it was kind of a rare bird at the time and i liked it better than my crunch box and could hardly find another contender. I think builders have really come around a lot more to the idea that there's a desire for that and there's more options now, which would make it make a lot of sense that CB would throw a lot more gain into later versions of that pedal.

Nah duder - your opinion is still gold on this subject IMO. I'm unsure if there is more gain (and how much), so just getting some clarity You're right about the small builder distortion thing though, until Ryan came out with the Elements, I didn't really want shit to do with non-fuzz dirt.

bigchiefbc wrote:How about the BAT Revelation Superlead/Superbass pedals? I've never tried one, and would love to put it up against my Bugera 1960 and see how close it is.

Played one of the prototypes way back when through my Jet City 22h - through the clean those things sounded just about like the dirt channel, which leads me to believe they are very good at adding to your amp instead of imparting their own voice. I'll be curious to see how it sounds with your Bugera.