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Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:24 pm
by D.o.S.
AngryGoldfish wrote:Give it time. :p It took Pink Floyd years to become fully recognized. Led Zeppelin had a quick rise to fame and obsession, but it wasn't so easy for Pink Floyd (at least from what I've read).

Think about it, someone has to take the pedestal. Someone has to be the next hero, so to speak, for my kids and your kids. If it's not Muse then who? My little sisters generation (7) will need to find someone to rely on and obsess over. It's part of growing up. So if it's not someone awesome like Muse then who? The hole will need to be filled by someone.


I'd prefer that the hole be filled by, uh, a good band. :cool:

Muse sound like Blondie gangraping Rush--in a bad way.

Anecdotally, I've always heard that "the heads" always knew about The Floyd, but it wasn't until they started writing songs that the general public took notice (i.e. Dark Side).

But they were pretty huge before then, too, because the audience hadn't stratified yet (see that, I'm bringing it all back home).

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:01 pm
by AngryGoldfish
Oh yeah, Pink Floyd were big in the early days of the 60's, but it wasn't until the The Wall tour and DVD did they start becoming recognizable as enormous heroes and generation setters.

And as far as Muse, I grew up listening to their early stuff. They just hit the spot for me at that time in my life. I know why so many people don't like them, but there is no denying their craftsmanship.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:17 am
by Necrosis18
Never cared for Muse, think I've listened to maybe 60% of 1 song so clearly I'm an expert. On the other hand I absolutely adore Pink Flyod. Anyone check out live at Pompeii? Easily one of my favorite lie shows, they were just so high and making noise.

I think we've reached an era where it's nearly impossible for one group to gain wide spread glory and from now on we will only be seeing the rise of genre champions.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:38 pm
by Mudfuzz
AngryGoldfish wrote:Oh yeah, Pink Floyd were big in the early days of the 60's, but it wasn't until the The Wall tour and DVD did they start becoming recognizable as enormous heroes and generation setters.

And as far as Muse, I grew up listening to their early stuff. They just hit the spot for me at that time in my life. I know why so many people don't like them, but there is no denying their craftsmanship.

I don't hate Muse at all but then they don't really do much for me either... And while I could see them in a Ledzep view point in future pop-culture... Pink Floyd no not at all.. Pink floyd have that unobtainable thing going for them that very very few reach, there are very few examples of bands that carve their own style where in their wake there are whole genres in their wake and yet they are a major seller 40+ years after they started... And the problem is that everything get compared to them if it is a mix of pop music [of what ever kind you wish to inject] and oddness. I really don't know if you can have another Floyd untill a whole new music type comes about supplanting blues/folk music based/polka/dance based and classical based popular music. :idk:

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:18 am
by well... it's green
music died a long time ago, we're just all going through the motions at this point.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:05 pm
by AngryGoldfish
Mudfuzz wrote:
AngryGoldfish wrote:Oh yeah, Pink Floyd were big in the early days of the 60's, but it wasn't until the The Wall tour and DVD did they start becoming recognizable as enormous heroes and generation setters.

And as far as Muse, I grew up listening to their early stuff. They just hit the spot for me at that time in my life. I know why so many people don't like them, but there is no denying their craftsmanship.

I don't hate Muse at all but then they don't really do much for me either... And while I could see them in a Ledzep view point in future pop-culture... Pink Floyd no not at all.. Pink floyd have that unobtainable thing going for them that very very few reach, there are very few examples of bands that carve their own style where in their wake there are whole genres in their wake and yet they are a major seller 40+ years after they started... And the problem is that everything get compared to them if it is a mix of pop music [of what ever kind you wish to inject] and oddness. I really don't know if you can have another Floyd untill a whole new music type comes about supplanting blues/folk music based/polka/dance based and classical based popular music. :idk:

This is true, I must admit. Pink Floyd have something no one else has, whether you prefer the early psychedelic stuff, the middle opus instrumentals, or the later stripped back acoustic work.

You see where I'm coming from, though? Someone has to take the reigns of the next generation and their obsessions. Someone has to be adorned because that's what people do; they latch to whatever they can find.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:06 pm
by AngryGoldfish
well... it's green wrote:music died a long time ago, we're just all going through the motions at this point.

This is not true. And it's nothing to do with opinion, because music blatantly isn't dead. It's still a thriving industry with great talent whether you like the music it provides or not.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:33 pm
by andtheLiquidmen
AngryGoldfish wrote:You see where I'm coming from, though? Someone has to take the reigns of the next generation and their obsessions. Someone has to be adorned because that's what people do; they latch to whatever they can find.


Yes. Very yes.

well... it's green wrote:music died a long time ago, we're just all going through the motions at this point.


Seriously? :facepalm:

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:15 am
by Necrosis18
AngryGoldfish wrote:
well... it's green wrote:music died a long time ago, we're just all going through the motions at this point.

This is not true. And it's nothing to do with opinion, because music blatantly isn't dead. It's still a thriving industry with great talent whether you like the music it provides or not.

Image
andtheLiquidmen wrote:
well... it's green wrote:music died a long time ago, we're just all going through the motions at this point.

Seriously? :facepalm:

NSFW: show
Image

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:46 am
by jrmy
So, I've started and deleted a response to this thread about five times now. As a former Anthro major, these sorts of discussions are exactly the sort of thing I both love and hate. I love 'em because I love talking smack about music. I hate 'em because someone usually gets butthurt and starts throwing bad vibes around. So far, though, so good!

In general, I have a tough time coming up with coherent predictions about "music," because my first response is always "which music?" So far most of the discussion has been around rock-related music, which makes total sense - for the most part, we are a fairly rock-based board (no slight intended, and yes, there are plenty of offshoots into avant-garde and noise and electronic and all sorts of good stuff). But on a global scale (and over the modern era), rock music is barely a blip on the radar. Which is not to malign it - I grew up on it, and it's still most of what moves me. But there's so much other stuff going on out there besides it (and besides all the other parenthetical stuff I mentioned as well), that talking about "music" is like the allegory of the blind guys trying to describe an elephant.

As an example, take K-Pop. If you had told me about K-Pop ten years ago, I would have thought you were describing something out of a William Gibson novel. Not that it's THAT unbelievably futuristic, but a thing that perfectly meta-consuming, glossy, produced and mass-consumed would have seemed science fictional. Now, of course, it's all over the place. Maybe still not "mainstreet America," but pretty much everywhere else. K-pop isn't necessarily futuristic in the elements that it's based on so much as the way that they're juxtaposed and mutated.

Or what about stuff that's not so widely hyped right now, like the favela beats that Diplo made a career out of appropriating a few years back? Just because he's moved on doesn't mean that sound isn't happening, growing, and mevolving in the streets it started in.

And then what about the hyper-isolated stuff that never really leaves it's ecosystem, like Go-Go music from D.C.? I don't know if it's a living genre anymore, but I would bet that there's still places that have their regional sound (even despite the interwebs tendency to broadcast everything that gets uploaded).

Our own ohsojayadeva (he doesn't log in much anymore, but he's still an ILFer to me) has been doing some great stuff with genres not touched on here - a few years back, he released an album of Kirtan (from Wikipedia, Kirtan " is call-and-response chanting or "responsory" performed in India's bhakti devotional traditions) that drew as much on synth-pop and heavy guitars as it did devotional chants. And his "regular" band Oh So, which is nominally gothy-electronic, just released a single that owes as much to Prince as to Gary Numan as to anything "gothy" - http://ohso.bandcamp.com/.

Hell, I went to a folk show this weekend (and I mean weird appalachian/New Englad dissonant trad-folk with old timey songs about incest, cannibalism at sea, and people freezing to death in the winter... with little blips of Tuvan throat singing and bowed banjo thrown in for good measure), and the place was packed. This is stuff that's acoustic to the bone and rejects many current notions of "modernity"... but was recorded in a modern studio, and is still available for purchase on Bandcamp - http://timeriksen.bandcamp.com/releases (and yeah, there's an electric guitar on "Auld Lang Syne, so clearly it stirs the pot even more than I just let on).

Then there's the talk of the global music industry, which is obviously in a state of upheaval. More power of distribution going to more artists, while the traditional structures crumble means... what? Hell, my own weird "I'm recording this for my own entertainment" stuff has sold albums as far abroad as Scotland and Finland - not many, mind you, but it would have been unthinkable for the bands I used to play in that got me into music in the first place.

This isn't really meant as a refutation to anything that's been said (well, except to the person who said that music is dead, but that seemed like straight trollin'), just some pain-in-the ass reflections, caveats and additions. I think this thread's totally a valid discussion... and probably worth a PhD thesis or ten.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:24 pm
by well... it's green
andtheLiquidmen wrote:
well... it's green wrote:music died a long time ago, we're just all going through the motions at this point.


Seriously? :facepalm:

NSFW: show
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIAi3Oo7To[/youtube]

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:37 am
by Necrosis18
jrmy wrote:
NSFW: show
So, I've started and deleted a response to this thread about five times now. As a former Anthro major, these sorts of discussions are exactly the sort of thing I both love and hate. I love 'em because I love talking smack about music. I hate 'em because someone usually gets butthurt and starts throwing bad vibes around. So far, though, so good!

In general, I have a tough time coming up with coherent predictions about "music," because my first response is always "which music?" So far most of the discussion has been around rock-related music, which makes total sense - for the most part, we are a fairly rock-based board (no slight intended, and yes, there are plenty of offshoots into avant-garde and noise and electronic and all sorts of good stuff). But on a global scale (and over the modern era), rock music is barely a blip on the radar. Which is not to malign it - I grew up on it, and it's still most of what moves me. But there's so much other stuff going on out there besides it (and besides all the other parenthetical stuff I mentioned as well), that talking about "music" is like the allegory of the blind guys trying to describe an elephant.

As an example, take K-Pop. If you had told me about K-Pop ten years ago, I would have thought you were describing something out of a William Gibson novel. Not that it's THAT unbelievably futuristic, but a thing that perfectly meta-consuming, glossy, produced and mass-consumed would have seemed science fictional. Now, of course, it's all over the place. Maybe still not "mainstreet America," but pretty much everywhere else. K-pop isn't necessarily futuristic in the elements that it's based on so much as the way that they're juxtaposed and mutated.

Or what about stuff that's not so widely hyped right now, like the favela beats that Diplo made a career out of appropriating a few years back? Just because he's moved on doesn't mean that sound isn't happening, growing, and mevolving in the streets it started in.

And then what about the hyper-isolated stuff that never really leaves it's ecosystem, like Go-Go music from D.C.? I don't know if it's a living genre anymore, but I would bet that there's still places that have their regional sound (even despite the interwebs tendency to broadcast everything that gets uploaded).

Our own ohsojayadeva (he doesn't log in much anymore, but he's still an ILFer to me) has been doing some great stuff with genres not touched on here - a few years back, he released an album of Kirtan (from Wikipedia, Kirtan " is call-and-response chanting or "responsory" performed in India's bhakti devotional traditions) that drew as much on synth-pop and heavy guitars as it did devotional chants. And his "regular" band Oh So, which is nominally gothy-electronic, just released a single that owes as much to Prince as to Gary Numan as to anything "gothy" - http://ohso.bandcamp.com/.

Hell, I went to a folk show this weekend (and I mean weird appalachian/New Englad dissonant trad-folk with old timey songs about incest, cannibalism at sea, and people freezing to death in the winter... with little blips of Tuvan throat singing and bowed banjo thrown in for good measure), and the place was packed. This is stuff that's acoustic to the bone and rejects many current notions of "modernity"... but was recorded in a modern studio, and is still available for purchase on Bandcamp - http://timeriksen.bandcamp.com/releases (and yeah, there's an electric guitar on "Auld Lang Syne, so clearly it stirs the pot even more than I just let on).

Then there's the talk of the global music industry, which is obviously in a state of upheaval. More power of distribution going to more artists, while the traditional structures crumble means... what? Hell, my own weird "I'm recording this for my own entertainment" stuff has sold albums as far abroad as Scotland and Finland - not many, mind you, but it would have been unthinkable for the bands I used to play in that got me into music in the first place.

This isn't really meant as a refutation to anything that's been said (well, except to the person who said that music is dead, but that seemed like straight trollin'), just some pain-in-the ass reflections, caveats and additions. I think this thread's totally a valid discussion... and probably worth a PhD thesis or ten.


Wow man I'm glad you were able to stick it out and submit this!
Yeah so many more bands are finding alternatives to record labels that the dynamic within the mind of the artist has begun to change. No longer is everyone running around thinking they need to get signed by huge labels in order to be a success. People are making BANK doing home or small studio recordings then selling it online or do small runs of self-burned CDs

well... it's green wrote:
andtheLiquidmen wrote:
well... it's green wrote:music died a long time ago, we're just all going through the motions at this point.


Seriously? :facepalm:

AngryGoldfish wrote:This is not true. And it's nothing to do with opinion, because music blatantly isn't dead. It's still a thriving industry with great talent whether you like the music it provides or not.

NSFW: show
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIAi3Oo7To[/youtube]


Quit trying to derail this thread Green, were having a serious discussion here.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:56 am
by Blackened Soul
Future of music... I am unsure about the dynamic that is happening between the industry and us more indie peoples small and big... on one hand I enjoy the crumbling that seems to be happening but that is because I find it sad that after the 90's it has seemed that the majors have fallen so behind what is actually happening. But then I think that has been the driving force for many to not be part of the machine pushing more and more off center. This gives me hope for the future of not just music but people. Art can't be contained because when it does it becomes something of textbooks and museums, it has to grow and move and what I have seen in the last ten+ years is the tech is letting people that aren't the best at playing the game or fitting into traditional constrictions get noticed. Now experimental and noise and drone are actually understood by more then just and handful of oddballs that no one likes.. It's almost funny know when someone says to me "no one likes all that weird stuff you do you know" because I KNOW there are people that like different things and make different things and so we all grow a bit. that's all I have to say.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:10 pm
by Twangasaurus
I suppose I would like to say some things on a couple points of discussion.
1. Anybody who can't find music they like in this day and age is either lazy, boring or both.
2. I think Bellamy and Muse are pretty laborious but I will forever like the fact that a prog band can still find mainstream success to the extent that they have achieved.
3. Anyone who thinks Skrillex is representative of dubstep is a silly and anyone who digs stoner/doom might find they like dubstep if they gave it a shot. Sit down, have a smoke and check out some of the more dub influenced dubstep like Liquid Stranger http://interchill.bandcamp.com/album/the-arcane-terrain.
4. I like strong psychedelics a fair amount. They have been good to me, are ultimately responsible for parts of myself that I like quite a bit and they undoubtedly had some influence on my taste in music. However, they definitely don't define my musical experience as a whole (in fact it's a fairly small corner) nor do they effect how I write or play music and I would never bother writing under the influence because it would be rubbish. I can say that this is true for pretty much all my drug taking musician friends (who are in the majority). Not saying some people can't and do write under the influence (Simon Posford or Steven Drozd for example) but I think for most people it makes the process "messy" and not in a good way.

As for the future of music :idk: . If you asked me at the end of the last decade when I was a bit more straight rock focused I would have said maybe we were in a bit of trouble but now... eh. Plenty of great material coming out faster than I can consume it. It's a good time to be alive.

Re: The Future of Music - A Discussion

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:59 am
by jrmy
All right, here's a noggin-scratcher for you alls. And I'm not saying I have an answer (or that there is one), because I sure as shit don't, but:

Does art need progress?

And further, what constitutes progress in art? Is it improvements in technique? Juxtaposition of unusual elements? Making things louder? Making things shinier?

Please note that I fully admit that "progress" is a loaded term implying an agenda or set path or understandable way forward.

Again, just talkin' smack.