I'd love rap/hip-hop if......

[StopReferencing]

Also, I know for a fact(?) that you're smart enough not to fall back on the hipster-bashing routine when folks don't dig what you post.

Ok, you've got a point there. It can be an easy cheap shot here. Everyone's allowed one freebie right? If not, then I owe you a beer next time I'm in NYC or you're in Nashvegas.

Also the inefficiency of his playing is a ridiculous topic of discussion. Next thing I know you all are going to be telling me that playing on a drum kit that spins upside-down is unnecessary.

Yeah, I don't know. I didn't really understand the comments concerning "inefficiency" either. I'm a horribly inefficient guitarist; I get really excited and start screaming and hitting the thing. When people complain about it, I laugh and spit blood in their faces.

[bigchiefbc]

The inefficiency is a side-argument that I really don't care about. I just don't get what is supposed to be so great about his drumming. But all over the web are these ridiculous arguments where people talk about him being in the top 10 drummers out there right now. Maybe I've listened to too much Tool, Isis, Mars Volta and shit like that. But nothing he's ever done has impressed me.

[Gearmond]

i'm sorry but anyone who dislikes hip hop only for "not having real musicians" has their head up their ass with outdated concepts of music and performance.

and because i'm 99% sure that there are more chicks here than black dudes, imma clear it up.

hip-hop = music genre/lifestyle

rap = vocal delivery

[dubkitty]

ten best drummers...seriously? i need a drink. and i don't even fuckin' drink.

my cute answer is that i'd love rap/hip-hop if it were relevant to my interests. i've heard a lot of artists do interesting things, and things i really love, with some of the instrumental tropes of hip-hop, but most of the "music and lifestyle" is about as interesting to me, and about as repellent, as most of disco music and culture was at its height. mindless consumerism idolised to the point of grotesquerie, a particularly ugly and internally racist (when was the last time you saw a dark-skinned black female R&B vocalist star?) take on looks fascism, sexism that makes Rastafarians look like Camille Paglia, and all of that grafted onto a perverse kind of black supremacism, a massive sense of undeserved entitlement, and the kind of sulky inchoate rage exhibited by children who were never taught to behave. at this point, trawling through that stuff looking for nuggets for me is like listening to Nazi punk bands in search of good drumming...the amount of ugly bullshit i have to excuse to get to anything worthwhile is too far to go.

[Gearmond]

its actually not that bad as you think it is, yo.

honestly most of the objectionable lyrics in hip hop can be countered by the comeback "well, you're white"

[Chumley]

i'm sorry but anyone who dislikes hip hop only for "not having real musicians" has their head up their ass with outdated concepts of music and performance.

and because i'm 99% sure that there are more chicks here than black dudes, imma clear it up.

hip-hop = music genre/lifestyle

rap = vocal delivery

This cat knows where it's fucking at.

Here's the deal: I saw Del Tha Funkee Homosapien a while back with a live band, and it was a lot of fun. Gonna see Aesop Rock in a week or two with a DJ and probably another MC and it's gonna be equally awesome if not moreso. Because let's be honest, much as we all love Del, Aes is the better MC.

Anyhow, there are some incredibly beautiful hip hop instrumentals that would be completely impossible to duplicate with a live band. Most of them involve either MF Doom, Madlib, or Blockhead. Some J Dilla or FlyLo never unappreciated either.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNDYgzrB1UY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewc1hixzYPY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z6ad1X13ks[/youtube]

[unownunown]

i'm sorry but anyone who dislikes hip hop only for "not having real musicians" has their head up their ass with outdated concepts of music and performance.

and because i'm 99% sure that there are more chicks here than black dudes, imma clear it up.

hip-hop = music genre/lifestyle

rap = vocal delivery

i pretty much agree. especially with the first part.

although, i'll probably never call 'hip hop' music using rapping hip hop. i honestly just think it sounds awkward and both terms carry really different connotations in my mind. but, i guess as with most genre-related things, neither term is really always fully correct. i think genres function to organize music and shouldn't necessarily be used to define it.

[Gearmond]

exactly. genres are about organization, not definition

personally i think the confusion with certain hip hop being called rap and vice versa stems from gangsta rap from the 90's, and from then on it was rap music and not hip-hop.