ilovefuzz.com

Gone Fission wrote:I seem to recall the Repeater was fairly reasonably priced years ago, and Rhys was always upfront as to what it was. I imagine current repeater prices are about supply and demand. It seems like a bit of an odd choice to spend the bucks on one rather one of his unique circuits, but not my money, so whatever floats your boat.

I dunno, I credit some r&d and know-how in hacking an existing digital product versus changing out a couple parts in a wah. I can do the later any Saturday, and the Crybaby circuit is far from a mystery. I'd probably need a stack of Nux delays and a month to be disposable in order to find a bend that didn't kill it, much less sounded good.

I actually picked up some nux delays because, inspired by the digital water, I wanted to experiment with circuit bending, not copy the pedal. I thought it was kind of nice to see a somewhat standardize bend in production. I am building a kitchen first, but there are a bunch of pcbs sitting in a box now. I guess one way is to look at him valuing his time bending/experiment as not a sunk cost (which I think a lot of people do). It is also supply and demand but I think there is also exchange rates to take into account. I don't know how or where he gets parts, but if he imports the parts/nuxs from the US, then maybe he is getting screwed and thinks he needs a better margin.

Anyway, I picked up my repeater at a shop, brand new, for ~100 in Jan. I think that was around the going rate. Not terrible (same design as the picture).

As a plumber though, I understand the feeling of being cheated for style...I can get an industrial faucet made of solid brass by kohler for $100. I can get a plastic/copper/brass faucet for residential (sometimes with a similar industrial design) for anywhere between $40 to $4000 depending on the style. They all have similar valve bodies and cartridges (some variance in quality/material) but people pay based on what the market dictates on style which people pay with no problem. Figuring the average faucet in the US is kept for 5-10 years (and some cartridges costing up to $100 a piece). But then, it is all supply and demand. I'll pay for what I want at the time even though I know it is not at all different.

eh was ready to pop my seppuku cherry but the prices on the site are US

resincum wrote:eh was ready to pop my seppuku cherry but the prices on the site are US

They are now? Crazy. Like last month they were AUS. Insane. They come up enough for sale. I will keep an eye out for you. And as, UC suggested, gizmo music is a good place to look. I always keep an eye out.

yeah, I was pretty stoked that it'd come to $150 or so, but was actually $222 or something. that'd be rad if you could keep a heads up! gizmo is too much of a headache for me

I still have not seen someone sell Seppuku stuff here or on Reverb, and I didn't get to gizmo quick enough. Guess I'll just have to keep on waiting and searching.

I've seen a couple of Mind Warp's, a Kassette, an Octavedrone and a Memory Loss on Reverb. But that was quite some time ago now. I know UG got one of the Mind Warp's and the Octavedrone. Both hand-painted enclosures.

Strange Tales wrote:I still have not seen someone sell Seppuku stuff here or on Reverb, and I didn't get to gizmo quick enough. Guess I'll just have to keep on waiting and searching.

The funny thing is, plenty of Seppuku stuff has been sold here in the past. Like a year ago, there was a Harmonic Energizer pedal that languished in the buy sell forum for months. And there was a Diamond Skeleton (early company name) Octave Drone on ebay forever. But, for some reason (new demos? the reverse psychology marketing approach?), these days the stuff has become highly sought after and hard to find. I've seen this happen with companies before, but this seemed to happen especially quickly and to a new extreme.

UglyCasanova wrote:Yeah. I edited my last post to comment on that. Re-edited and posted here instead:

The difference is that he is literally using the circuit and repainting the enclosure instead of making the exact same circuit with it's tweaks and additions and putting it in another enclosure. Not liking that is like saying appropriation art is not art, IMHO. Which is fine, but I don't agree.

And then there will be people who say: "But he's not even using expensive/rare parts, dørrrr". To those I simply say: so fucking what? He's fucking creative! He came up with the idea and follwed through, turning nothing (cheap parts/regular sounding pedals) into something awesome (pedals which sound nothing like no other pedal), with the exception being the Repeater, as far I know. That's worthy of credit and hence my money.

I love the Lluna too, btw. Awesome pedal!

Thanks for the added knowledge. I agree that nothing sounds like the ic water. I loved the demos, and wanted one for myself.

I guess my main issue was when trying to get some more info from seppuku himself, he never replied to my emails, and I'm not going to waste my time with a builder that can't spare a few minutes to answer a few questions.

The second issue I have is the way the pedal is advertised. I don't see jhs, keeley, alchemy, etc trying to pull the wool over potential buyers eyes with modded versions of already exsisting pedals, and they sure don't sell these pedals at a massive mark up.

Would you still pay $250 for a pedal labeled "seppuku's circuit bent nux time core". I doubt it. I see some of this shit over on reverb, and see ilfer's posting here, bashing the seller for trying to sell their own circuit bent crafted in china shit pedal. Either seppukus shit must not stink, or we are all just a bunch of hypocrites. Either way I'm going to deal with the builders that want to deal with me.

braaandooon wrote:Thanks for the added knowledge. I agree that nothing sounds like the ic water. I loved the demos, and wanted one for myself.

I guess my main issue was when trying to get some more info from seppuku himself, he never replied to my emails, and I'm not going to waste my time with a builder that can't spare a few minutes to answer a few questions.

The second issue I have is the way the pedal is advertised. I don't see jhs, keeley, alchemy, etc trying to pull the wool over potential buyers eyes with modded versions of already exsisting pedals, and they sure don't sell these pedals at a massive mark up.

Would you still pay $250 for a pedal labeled "seppuku's circuit bent nux time core". I doubt it. I see some of this shit over on reverb, and see ilfer's posting here, bashing the seller for trying to sell their own circuit bent crafted in china shit pedal. Either seppukus shit must not stink, or we are all just a bunch of hypocrites. Either way I'm going to deal with the builders that want to deal with me.

I don't think he hides that it is a circuit bent delay at all. I think it was called that for a while. Or one of the images on his site is called that. Hovercraft is doing exactly what you are saying but advertising it on kickstarter and with absolutely no mention of it being a jet city distortion pedal. I think some of the other ones i've seen posted were kind of funny (like finger paint).

That said, if they spend $40 on parts either way via circuit bending or from scratch and mark it up to 250...what's the difference on your end? If a company makes three pedals that are identical inside with only different "programming" in the dsp but costs three different prices, is that as bad? PT2399 delays have a ton of different price points, but in some ways they are all "bends" on very similar concepts. Most pedals are inherantly some kind of differnt take or bend on similar circuits at some point? How deep do you go? I don't know the answers, and everyone's opinions are equally as valid, but it's something to think about. Again, if the market stops buying them because they don't like it, then it will change.

The e-mail/communication thing is what bothers me. But, I don't know if I have just gotten calous to it, but it seems to come with the territory with some builders in this niche (which is also probably a reason why I hold Lastgasp so high).

I'm not a Seppuku fanboy at all, I just enjoy trying them out (I really like Memory Loss and Kompakt Kassette). I just felt like they were something I might like but since his pedal prices have risen, I am not really interested unless I get them down at a reasonable price. That's how a market works though.

Yeah in an earlier less fucking horrible iteration of his website the digital water was listed as a circuit bent not sure if it said what it was based on delay. I wish I would have bought one back then, but I'm still willing to give him my money cause his pedals sound so unique.

Uncle Grandfather wrote:Yeah in an earlier less fucking horrible iteration of his website the digital water was listed as a circuit bent not sure if it said what it was based on delay. I wish I would have bought one back then, but I'm still willing to give him my money cause his pedals sound so unique.

I guess what I am getting at is this whole "industry" and niche is based on a common understanding of intellectual property. There are at ton of variations on very similar circuits. Ghost, Lowbrow, Fredric, hell even Sanner himself still make the variations of the Fuzzrite but people pay different prices for them based on sound and cost. It depends on what fits with you. If someone flat out steals, I think that is different.

I think Rhys, ill advised or not, is attempting to capitalize on the mystique and unobtainable aspect of his pedals by increasing margin (or in some way make his time worth more). It scares some away, but others are willing to pay/wait. At the end of the day, you are just buying his sound/take on a circuit or effect much the same way other companies operate. I really enjoy some of his effects but I know what I am willing to pay too which is what I think UG/UC is getting at.

I know several of us have looked at that 1000$ Ripplet and want it but we aren't willing to pay it. I think we all have thresholds of cost to obtain (or at least try) that sound.

Damn, lord's post about nails seppuku's business model in my opinion. Maybe I'm just butt hurt I passed on an icy waters. I was lusting over one of these when the youtube demo was released. Even tried contacting seppuku through different sources to find out some more info on the ped and got no response, hell here we are 6 months later and still no reply. I had no idea what a nux time core was at the time, cheap chinese delays are not my forte, and the description of the icy water is pretty vague. I'd feel much better spending 3 bills on a bent dl-8, than a bent $30 delay.

Regardless there are just too many great builders around these parts, that are pleasant and great to do business with, and I'd rather spend money supporting them. The good news is I'll never buy from seppuku so more for you guys

That ripplet on reverb cracks me up, its just there to taunt people.

I actually think Pepe said something similar earlier in the thread haha. And, like Pepe, I rely on the used market now (though I did happen upon a few via retail...I've only bought through him once).

I've ordered directly from Rhys two times now. The first time I had a hard time getting ahold of him. This time he has replied to me within a few days. Even sent me a message to let me know another dual LFO vibrato was ready to ship. Random info, I guess. But with all the talk of him never replying, I thought I'd share a sunshine story.

lordgalvar wrote:I actually think Pepe said something similar earlier in the thread haha. And, like Pepe, I rely on the used market now (though I did happen upon a few via retail...I've only bought through him once).

I can't even afford used anymore, most of my gear purchases are sub $200 projects from the broke market. 80 percent of my gigging rig was bought broken, heads, cabs, guitar, most of my pedals. Really enjoy the learning experience though, and never seem to flip anything I have time into.