ilovefuzz.com

I will say that this new logo (I didn't see the 'offensive one' I guess) is much more space invaders with cocks than anything else to me.

Definitely agreed, but given that he did apparently use a swastika, still kinda not cool.

Just a heads up, three seppukus has been traced to vero and can be found on the tagboardeffects forum

jwar wrote:Ok so as I pointed out earlier somewhere. the swastika orientation does make a difference for what it's worth. The meanings are different and the symbol is used in many, many religions. Here's just one site for reference http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-le ... ory-001312

Now I do not think he should use that symbol or any likeness if he has half a fucking brain, but that's just my opinion. I wouldn't touch that shit EVER. Regardless of it's multiple meanings.

how about this one? everyone likes the skull and crossbones don’t they?
tattoos, gear, album art...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNLbK8_rBY[/youtube]

done yet?

yeah. when it stops this time that's it. if it isn't dry it can go on the radiator overnight.

Brandsmannen wrote:Just a heads up, three seppukus has been traced to vero and can be found on the tagboardeffects forum

hey brandsmannen, in fsb and tbe we trust. what do you fancy next?

I wasn't really agreeing with you when I posted that video, haha. I just think it's a funny little clip.

The skull and crossbones is a very, very old symbol that has also been far more wide spread than the swastika. And considering a skull and human bones have been associated with death for as long we've had skeletons, I don't find the link to be as strong. When I think of nazism I think of a swastika, when I picture a skull and crossbones-symbol I think of death. Also, skulls and crossbones come in various shapes and sizes and angles. A swastika is just six lines in 2D.

Has nothing to do with my own personal fandom of Buffalo Bill or my burning lust for Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS. It was a stupid stunt when insipid mouthbreathers like Siouxie and the Banshees did it, It's a stupid thing to do now, and any statement of "reclaiming the symbol" reeks of the same kind of cultural blandness and infantile, self-important drooling that makes various white people decide they can say "nigga" because "black people say it, why can't we?"

So, yes, freedom of speech and right to expression, and nothing is inherently off limits and blah-de-fucking-blah artists rights, but that does not indemnify someone from being identifed as various shades of seminal drizzle for using it by others.








And Motorhead is still fucking awesome.

tabbycat wrote:

jwar wrote:Ok so as I pointed out earlier somewhere. the swastika orientation does make a difference for what it's worth. The meanings are different and the symbol is used in many, many religions. Here's just one site for reference http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-le ... ory-001312

Now I do not think he should use that symbol or any likeness if he has half a fucking brain, but that's just my opinion. I wouldn't touch that shit EVER. Regardless of it's multiple meanings.

how about this one? everyone likes the skull and crossbones don’t they?
tattoos, gear, album art...

What

lol

D.o.S. wrote:

tabbycat wrote:re the use of the swastika (a lucky symbol in various eastern religions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika), that could be coming from a few different directions; cheap attention-seeking, an attempt to reassign it more positive connotations, or an attempt to dilute its threat value through banal over-exposure in contexts it can have no plausible threat value.
i think the british punks of the seventies put that one to bed years ago. the smarter ones (i think it came from mclaren, westwood and reid, the original culture jammers) were coming at it from all three directions at once, and never saying which, much to the infuriation of the british media. the thicker punks just saw the shock potential and thought it an easy attention-button to press (lots of their parents would have fought in ww2). but it was being used in all three ways at the time.

I wonder how many of those punks went Paki bashing bedecked in their appropriated swastika garb?

as i said, ‘the thicker ones’ i expect. violent racist idiots attach themselves to all youth subcultures. all dependent on that individual’s mentality. as a pakistani kid in 1970s britain you were far more likely to be beaten up by a ted or a skinhead than any punk. they were the violent (often nf-affiliated) ones. blame tory douches like enoch powell for whipping that sentiment up, not malcolm mclaren.

the original ‘first wave’ punks (worthy of the name) were far more interested in the music and the clothes than fighting. and they would have been as afraid of getting beaten up by the teds and skins as the pakistanis. by first wave punks i mean the ones with links to (or inspired by) what went on in and around malcolm and vivienne’s shop, and taking their image cues from art-school culture/glam rock/mod/1950s b-movies etc (the pre-sid pistols, siouxsie, early antz, generation x) mixed up with a bit of ’68 situationism (which was malcolm and jamie’s thing).
it was a movement preoccupied with ideas and images and music. and anti-fascism. having a song entitled ‘anarchy in the uk’ as your calling card makes that about explicit as you could wish it to be.

the later ‘thug-grade’ punks (uniform leather jacket, jeans, doc martens) were an ignorant provincial distortion/parody (which later totally generated into shitty oi) of something they were mentally incapable of appreciating for what it really was. the first wave disowned them and their brutishness completely.

malcolm mclaren’s use of the swastika in the ‘sex’ shop clothing was partly for shock value, partly an anti-fascist gesture (the ruling class/demographic in britain at the time felt they had a right to dictate to the younger generation ‘because they had fought a war for them’, the younger generation’s response to that being ‘why bother if you are going to act like fascists yourself?’, the swastika used by them as a shorthand icon to refer to this argument), and partly a desire to (artistically speaking) take a shit on nazi iconography, to knock it off its ‘untouchable status’ pedestal, on behalf of himself (a jew) and his jewish mother.



unfortunately while mclaren could control how his imagery and metaphors were received within the punk subculture surrounding the shop, what he couldn’t control was how the wider media, with a pro status-quo agenda, would represent these ideas to the reactionary british masses. there you can be sure that argument never got beyond ‘nazi punks’. but that’s not what it was ever about.

the swastika shouldn't be kept on an 'untouchable' pedestal for all eternity. that preserves its potency as a symbol for all the evil that nazism stood for. which is exactly what the original nazis (and current neo-nazis) would want. to keep it sanctified, precious and apart. holy. we do nazism a service by helping them keep it 'privileged' by that untouchable status.

what true nazis would most hate is to see is their 'sacred' symbol being totally recycled and consumed by liberal culture. over time being reappropriated and revalued beyond all common recognition and memory. stripped of all its former negative connotations to re-enter the culture as nothing more than a designified graphic image; a pattern or motif on trainers, smartphone covers, fuzzboxes, etc. so in fifty or a hundred years' time kids won't see that graphic and think nazi, they'll think ikea, nike, hello kitty, whatever. even seppuku. but not nazi. they should still learn about nazism at school and be encouraged to fully appreciate the history. but there should be no 'inverse reverence' for the symbolism that it generated. as the nazis destroyed books, we should destroy their iconography by recycling it and revaluing it for new and better purposes. purposes we, the liberal present, control.

which is why i don't mind seppuku playing with it on his boxes. rather a fuzzbox than a flag or a uniform. i think it's long overdue.

I don't agree with the end result, but I can respect your position. Good talk so far!

I think we need more time away from WWII before we can separate the two as they currently are known to be hand in hand. Our society simply isn't ready or willing to accept any other identity for the swastika. For now I would think any use of that symbol would just give their group attention, which I don't think we should give them. I think having their symbol abundant does more benefit for the nazis than any attempt at giving it a new identity. Unfortunately for equal rights among all symbols as forms of expression, it's more about a group perception and interpretation than an individual one, so how it is widely perceived is what will carry the most weight when questioning symbols identity.

D.o.S. wrote:I will say that this new logo (I didn't see the 'offensive one' I guess) is much more space invaders with cocks than anything else to me.

Does anyone else see a guy wearing a cowboy hat

Cody_Pole wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:I will say that this new logo (I didn't see the 'offensive one' I guess) is much more space invaders with cocks than anything else to me.

Does anyone else see a guy wearing a cowboy hat

this could be the difference between living in Portland and living in Bangor.