Page 143 of 1055
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:57 pm
by snipelfritz
dubkitty wrote:some people do buy music. it's just that people like you prefer to steal it, is all. and then get all self-righteous about it.
dubkitty wrote:i mean, what part of "Michael Gira's record label is going out of business because people steal his recordings from pirate sites despite the fact that they know that he's an uncompromising independent artist who's lived on a shoestring for 40 years" isn't clear? what's he supposed to do, go on Social Security? go live in the van and tour even though he's over sixty? or just die? everybody's not a twentysomething punk band, you know.
I understand there's a difference between making money to make music and making music to make money, but it's unreasonable to expect something to happen that will actually put an end to piracy. Unless you want to pour all your money into the RIAA's lawyer's pockets, I'm not sure what you're expecting.
and I don't have anything to be self-righteous about. I don't even pay for my internet connection lol.
Mooching off your parents rules!(trying to bring the discussion to something happier...)
OOoooohhh, I finally got to play my guitar for the first time in like a week! Hooray!
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:06 pm
by unownunown
dubkitty wrote:some people do buy music. it's just that people like you prefer to steal it, is all. and then get all self-righteous about it.
excuse me? it's unarguably fact that people on the whole do not buy music as much as they used to. i buy cds occasionally. i just preordered a cd a few days ago from a group that built up their entire fanbase on two free mixtapes, internet exposure, and touring. their success with that model is why i support it and consider it a feasible standard for the future.
there's absolutely nothing self righteous about anything i've said, unless you consider having an opinion that differs from your own to be so.
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:00 am
by Achtane
Kamikaze Girls is almost done downloading.
Not the porn series though. Well, maybe. I'll find out soon.
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:33 am
by D.o.S.
snipelfritz wrote:D.o.S. wrote:See, I think that sentence hits the nail right on the head for creative people trying to make a living on their intellectual property.
Blog publicity is no way to build a career, and while the charts will always be dominated by the lowest common denominator, anyone who wants to make good music shouldn't have to starve for it.
but, does that mean that the definition of "good music" becomes set at those that are able to sell records? Art is something which should be crated out of a desire to make good art not an expectation to make money. If people then give you money for it, you should be grateful for what you get because there are plenty of people who'd take your audience for half the pay(or even nothing). How many more "hobby musicians" are there than professionals? Once you begin looking at your music as a product rather than your own gospel intended for nothing more than propagation en masse, it's no longer art and, in that sense, becomes worthless.
At least that's how I see it.
Dear Snipelfritz, My closet comrade in Nowhere'sfuck Wisconsin,
It's one thing to be stoked on the fact that people are paying for your art. That's a unique high that can never be totally replicated. I know I'll never forget (the possibility of Alzheimer's disease willing) the first time my art was referred to as "life changing." And that is a total truth, no internet shenaniganry or puffed-up bullshit here. My shit is so good people have been moved to examine their entire lives in a different light because of it. And, for the record, I have never created a single damn thing with a profit margin in mind.
And you know what?
It's really fucking hard to pay rent with sentiment.
Here's a fun fact:
At every single level Art (in the quotated, life-affirming what-seperates-animals-from-evolved-mankind sense) is commerce. Whether it's positioning for grant money or fighting for a fellowship or simply trying to get any kind of media publisher to take a chance on your creations.
Even Fugazi knew that.
Welcome to real life, please pass the cyanide.
Yr. buddy,
D.o.S.
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:05 am
by D.o.S.
unownunown wrote:dubkitty wrote:some people do buy music. it's just that people like you prefer to steal it, is all. and then get all self-righteous about it.
excuse me? it's unarguably fact that people on the whole do not buy music as much as they used to. i buy cds occasionally. i just preordered a cd a few days ago from a group that built up their entire fanbase on two free mixtapes, internet exposure, and touring. their success with that model is why i support it and consider it a feasible standard for the future.
there's absolutely nothing self righteous about anything i've said, unless you consider having an opinion that differs from your own to be so.
Dear Unownunown, my dearest friend with an allergy to the letter K,
You do understand the problem with supporting a band by buying a cd of theirs only after they've released two free mixtapes and book their own tours (perhaps by saying "dude, look at all our bandcamp downloads!!!," perhaps by supplying venues with the aforementioned mixtape and saying " the kids totally dig our shit" to promoters, right?
I don't want to insult your intelligence by vamping unnecessarily, but clearly that model is not sustainable for a large growth of musical groups, especially when you factor that the groups that "deserve it most" (to one set of ears or the other) may not be the ones who can afford to tour incessantly despite landing in the red after every outing.
As I'm sure you're aware, money is rarely the denomination people pay heed to in artistic pursuits, but the methodology you endorse and espouse rewards exactly those who have the disposable income to make it happen.
Lastly, I don't believe you're being self-righteous, but I would say that you're placing a little too much faith in the blogosphere to act as a device to guide Joe and Joseline to the wheat from the chaff.
As always, I could be wrong.
Sincerely,
D.O.S.
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:06 am
by DarkAxel
God, i just tuned my tele to AADGhe and ran it through my new green muff
THE PEDAL IS A TOTAL SLUDGE MACHINE
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:07 am
by McSpunckle
^^ Actually, all business have an investment/startup period, so for bands it could be that early "give shit away and get your name out there" period to build a fanbase.
If you're good people will pay a bit to see you. I've paid $15 to see local bands before, and didn't have a problem with it. Sometimes I even buy merch/CDs from them-- if they're available. And I pay to see bigger bands-- when I can afford it. Unfortunately sometimes I just can't spend the $50.
I remember some article with Amanda Palmer where she said she was making quite a bit of money just by having a merch table at her shows. Turns out a group of people there to see you will buy stuff from you. Weird, huh?
There was a lady on the news here recently talking about how piracy has made it impossible for her to make money. So I tried to steal her music-- and I couldn't find it anywhere. So maybe she's just shit and expects people to just hand her money because she's making music.
I guess my whole point is... fighting the way things are is silly, and you have to find a different business model to fit the times. I haven't noticed a lack of awesome music, so apparently it's not -quite- as bad as some would have us believe.
To use an analogy, GM almost went under because nobody was buying their cars-- instead buying imports-- because they failed to keep up with the times and just made big, shitty, gas-hungry cars after gas prices went up.
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:15 am
by tuffteef
ive gone to download someones record and there so lame that its impossible to find and non existant that ive had to buy it LOL
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:48 am
by Caesar
dubkitty wrote:some people do buy music. it's just that people like you prefer to steal it, is all. and then get all self-righteous about it.
- dontbeadick.jpg (39.53 KiB) Viewed 841 times
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:54 am
by snipelfritz
Dear D.o.S., someone who, like me, loves to use "dear so-and-so" to start ironically polite rants(seriously, isn't it the best?),
You're falling into the same fallacy that the Republican party is currently under: Just because you think I'm wrong doesn't mean you are right by default.
Sure, people put a lot of effort into art and there is an intangible value in that. There are professions built around it, but because people aren't making money the way they used to doesn't mean it's the consumer's fault. Saying "I deserve to be paid" doesn't mean jack shit. Convince me, particularly in new and exciting ways.
THAT is real life.
Your continuous Devil's Advocate and friendly debate opponent,
snipelfritz
Unrelated, i have the next two night off and i pretty much got offered a job with the same pay as my current one, but much better hours(as in not 3rd shift). Huzzah!
EDIT: Also, what's to be self-righteous about about pirating music. As someone who does it all the time, I simply do it for convenience and selfishness. I want to be aware of as much music as possible. That's just me looking out for me. Nothing great about that.
If I were in London, I'd totally be the one looter who's like, "No I don't really know what any of this is about per se. I just wanted a new computer."
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:56 am
by ashdown
and lo, d.o.s. was right
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:28 am
by bigchiefbc
snipelfritz wrote:Sure, people put a lot of effort into art and there is an intangible value in that. There are professions built around it, but because people aren't making money the way they used to doesn't mean it's the consumer's fault. Saying "I deserve to be paid" doesn't mean jack shit. Convince me, particularly in new and exciting ways.
THAT is real life.
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:10 pm
by unownunown
D.o.S. wrote:unownunown wrote:dubkitty wrote:some people do buy music. it's just that people like you prefer to steal it, is all. and then get all self-righteous about it.
excuse me? it's unarguably fact that people on the whole do not buy music as much as they used to. i buy cds occasionally. i just preordered a cd a few days ago from a group that built up their entire fanbase on two free mixtapes, internet exposure, and touring. their success with that model is why i support it and consider it a feasible standard for the future.
there's absolutely nothing self righteous about anything i've said, unless you consider having an opinion that differs from your own to be so.
Dear Unownunown, my dearest friend with an allergy to the letter K,
You do understand the problem with supporting a band by buying a cd of theirs only after they've released two free mixtapes and book their own tours (perhaps by saying "dude, look at all our bandcamp downloads!!!," perhaps by supplying venues with the aforementioned mixtape and saying " the kids totally dig our shit" to promoters, right?
I don't want to insult your intelligence by vamping unnecessarily, but clearly that model is not sustainable for a large growth of musical groups, especially when you factor that the groups that "deserve it most" (to one set of ears or the other) may not be the ones who can afford to tour incessantly despite landing in the red after every outing.
As I'm sure you're aware, money is rarely the denomination people pay heed to in artistic pursuits, but the methodology you endorse and espouse rewards exactly those who have the disposable income to make it happen.
Lastly, I don't believe you're being self-righteous, but I would say that you're placing a little too much faith in the blogosphere to act as a device to guide Joe and Joseline to the wheat from the chaff.
As always, I could be wrong.
Sincerely,
D.O.S.
yeah, i totally support the internet. i think internet promoting is the future. i think the fact that we have a very active music forum says a lot about this. i'm definitely biased, because every independent band i've ever seen live (save one) i found online, and i don't even fuck with pitchfork anymore. the other one i heard at the mall.
i'm not expecting people to use blogs as tastemakers, although they definitely do. i'm saying that it's very out of touch to underestimate the impact internet exposure has on bands.
i think saying 'i don't want to insult your intelligence but' is slightly kinder way of saying 'since i disagree with you, you're obviously an idiot.' dearest D.O.S., i would like to know what your solution to this problem is. like i said, people aren't going to be buying cds more in the future, especially with the advent of cloud based media storage like google music and spotify! musicians who actually want to make money need to work WITH these changes. expecting people to start shelling out for cds in the same fashion they used to is totally insane.
also, everything mcspunckle said. especially
McSpunckle wrote:^^ Actually, all business have an investment/startup period, so for bands it could be that early "give shit away and get your name out there" period to build a fanbase.
McSpunckle wrote:
I guess my whole point is... fighting the way things are is silly, and you have to find a different business model to fit the times. I haven't noticed a lack of awesome music, so apparently it's not -quite- as bad as some would have us believe.
this is generally the point i'd like to make.
McSpunckle wrote:I remember some article with Amanda Palmer where she said she was making quite a bit of money just by having a merch table at her shows. Turns out a group of people there to see you will buy stuff from you. Weird, huh?
it's like magic.
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:39 pm
by D.o.S.
Misread. "I don't want to insult your intelligence" means exactly that. Saves time and reading if/when we understand each other already.
Bear with me, since there's a whole lot of things flying around the thread right now.
Anyway, the important thing is not getting paid for a cd or a record in that form. You're all right--it's an archaic medium at this point. The important thing is convincing people that music is worth money. Not shows, not merch, but music. How you do that, I'm not quite sure.
In regards to the blogging thing--we'll have to agree to disagree. Blogs certainly promote bands, I just don't know if they do enough.
Re: the happiness, excitement, and general contentedness thr
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:25 pm
by veteransdaypoppy
uh.. from my understanding, bands don't really make much money from cd sales unless they're selling em out on the merch table. buying a cd from a store pretty much just keeps labels afloat. licensing tunes to commercials, whatever, and coming to see bands locally is where they get their cashola.
places like bandcamp and bigcartel give the artist most of the profit for cd/download sales, but buying from a sam goody or an fye pretty much just pays the label... am i wrong? i don't really know, but that was the impression i was under. i never expected to make much money selling cds.