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Lurker13 wrote:Oh, I forgot about Dream Theater. They are, without a doubt, the most overproduced and pointless shreddy-shred shred band of all time. Prog metal masturbation of the worst kind.

I just can't do them, either. There's no doubt they're incredibly good musicians but when they get together it's just so boring.

Also, Primus.

Genesis.

The Clash.

dubkitty wrote:The Clash.

The only band that never mattered.

Is Frank Zappa rated at all?
I seem to always read how amazing Zappa's music is and everytime I listen to it it's pure masturbation with him singing about poop and pee and cringey edgy stuff.

the thing about Zappa for me is that the instrumentals are stellar, but after the original Mothers split circa 1969 FZ went into puerile lyrics mode. i think he decided/realized that the only way to get the average American consumer to listen to his music was to appeal to the lowest common denominator. if you can find, e.g., tapes from the 1973 tour where everything was instrumental with the sole exception of "Montana" you can get a better idea of what he was about musically. the "Shut Up And Play Your Guitar" series of releases are also good. i really can't listen to his post-Mothers studio releases any more because of the lyrics and "humor."

Yeah dubs has the right take here. First three mothers records are flawless, weasels ripped my flesh is good, ahead of their time is good, the rest is not my bag but musically it's pretty outstanding.

I can get past the lyrics to some of the later stuff but I also find a lot of it puts me off.

Can't fault the composition, musical talent and band leadership though

I can get why a lot of the music/lyrics might not be everyone's bag but I don't think his prolific, stylistically varied, inventive output or his great guitar playing, are overrated.

Zappa's dirty lyrics work well for numerous reasons imo.

Firstly, it was a stark contrast to what the hippies and everyone else were signing about at that time. So, it was a reaction against his contemporaries.

Secondly, everything about Zappa and his music was extreme even the stuff that may not seem so extreme. So, it makes sense to have extreme lyrics too.

Thirdly, I think the idea of having what is basically high brow music (very well composed, hard to play etc) coupled with low brow lyrics is an interesting contrast and probably made some people appreciate either music they wouldn't normally like, or lyrics they wouldn't normally like because they liked the other aspect of the song and thus gave it a fair shot. So, it kinda forced people out of their comfort zones while still being grounded in their comfort zone.

Lastly, what else would he sing about? This is especially important for someone who has so many albums. I've often thought about how a more traditional lyrical approach would work with his music, and I can't see it working. You can only sing about love, politics, and cars so much without being redundant. And let's face it, lyrics are typically the weakest part of a song because most people simply can't write interesting lyrics. So, I think his embracing an approach of everything and anything goes makes sense for him.

Well, that's all I got for right now.

Lurker13 wrote:

dubkitty wrote:The Clash.

The only band that never mattered.

I had a friend that used to give me shit cause I didn't like them (she had tattoos ) yet I listened to Billy Bragg

dubkitty wrote:Genesis

I'm not one to tell someone their opinions are wrong, and you're definitely right about "The Clash" but 70's Genesis gets a seriously bad rep when you factor popularity of their 80's output, American Psycho, Collins solo career, AOR overplaying, etc.

Nursery Cryme / Foxtrot / Live / Selling England / Trick Of The Tail / Wind & Wuthering / Seconds Out (plus Hackett's Voyage of the Acolyte) are all really incredible albums and worth a shot however if you hate prog, costumes, 12 string guitars or whatever it might not be for you.

I've recently come around on Peter Gabriel's solo albums too. I got no beef with Collins but his solo stuff doesn't grab me (except you're lying if you don't turn up In The Air Tonight when you're driving down the highway).

EDIT: Trespass is the jam too but doesn't rank quite as high as the rest

well, i've tried and tried to listen to classic (i.e. 70s) Genesis, but it just doesn't get to me even though i love a lot of prog (Yes, Gong, 70s King Crimson). i go back to it every few years because i know people whose opinions i generally trust who just LOVE that stuff, but for whatever reason it just doesn't work for me. i really don't know what's missing, or what i'm missing. on the other hand, i love Gabriel's solo work.

Ugly Nora wrote:Zappa's dirty lyrics work well for numerous reasons imo.

Firstly, it was a stark contrast to what the hippies and everyone else were signing about at that time. So, it was a reaction against his contemporaries.

Secondly, everything about Zappa and his music was extreme even the stuff that may not seem so extreme. So, it makes sense to have extreme lyrics too.

Thirdly, I think the idea of having what is basically high brow music (very well composed, hard to play etc) coupled with low brow lyrics is an interesting contrast and probably made some people appreciate either music they wouldn't normally like, or lyrics they wouldn't normally like because they liked the other aspect of the song and thus gave it a fair shot. So, it kinda forced people out of their comfort zones while still being grounded in their comfort zone.

Lastly, what else would he sing about? This is especially important for someone who has so many albums. I've often thought about how a more traditional lyrical approach would work with his music, and I can't see it working. You can only sing about love, politics, and cars so much without being redundant. And let's face it, lyrics are typically the weakest part of a song because most people simply can't write interesting lyrics. So, I think his embracing an approach of everything and anything goes makes sense for him.

Well, that's all I got for right now.

I'm going to revisit Zappa after reading this.

dubkitty wrote:well, i've tried and tried to listen to classic (i.e. 70s) Genesis, but it just doesn't get to me even though i love a lot of prog (Yes, Gong, 70s King Crimson). i go back to it every few years because i know people whose opinions i generally trust who just LOVE that stuff, but for whatever reason it just doesn't work for me. i really don't know what's missing, or what i'm missing. on the other hand, i love Gabriel's solo work.

Same here. Somehow the Prog Rock thing done by Genesis is not my taste at all. Phil Collins had a few nice hits that I loved as a kid. And everything that Peter Gabriel did is gold (aside from his album "Up" that I listen to every few years and that always feels wrong).

Zappa sucks. I'm so glad someone else said it. I see so many people blowing his music up, so I listen and am dumbstruck. He was talented as hell sure, but I can't stand the music.

Primus is terrible as well, I'll agree with that one.

Genesis was great and I hate you guys for saying bad things about them.


You know who's overrated? Sting. God, I love older Sting music, but his over inflated ego has ruined it in a lot of ways. He is so a bloated sack of dicks. I still can't get Fields of Gold out of my head though. Classic.

My sister likes Genesis. Nuff said.