Top Mounted Everything! And RRR v2 discussions!

[futuresailors]

So could you fit 7 jacks in the small enclosure?

And could someone 'splain me a practical use for stereo ins? Because I only ever used them to make an effect loop on my delays...

[Ryan]

Woops, sorry Jack! I didn't mean to sound cranky there, you certainly didn't overstep anything and you're beyond welcome here. And I know this is a really long and sprawling thread with a lot of discussion paths that meander all over the place so we might not all be exactly on the same page at the same time. Love your input though, sir, please keep it coming! You're right too, that's how I'd already set up the input, with a switching jack so the unused input wouldn't float and then the circuit's fine with just leaving the unused output floating, so all the in and out schemes you mentioned would work fine.

I think all this development talk is super exciting too, I love it! I think we're all doing something pretty cool here, planning out the path for this most excellent pedal, our presumably penultimate pedal production.

I'm just finding it tough to balance the features and the practicality... the ideas with the reality. After all, no matter what we decide would make the ultimate Reverberator, Tanya and I still have to be able to make this and it still has to be a pedal that the general reverb pedal purchaser in a store will check out and like...not be so complicated that I'm not even sure how it works. *smile*

Austin, we're on a wavelength there buddy, I'm picking up what you're putting down. I think more people would use the effect loop and the buffered bypass option than a true stereo signal path. Well, at least until Fender starts making stereo guitars I guess hey! I do think the recording/electronic instrument aspect of true stereo is huge though and would consider still doing a true stereo version but in a rack case with wall power and line level and all that jazz.

AGF, I think that's a funny point too about the effects loop... that it seems like people would be most excited to put the effect send through some modulation... but the RRRv2 will have modulation available anyway! I get it though, lots of pedals would sound cool on the wet send and a real chorus pedal would sound dramatically different than the decay time modulation I've cooked up, it's not like proper chorus, just a proper warble.

Alex, I have been pondering your wet/dry effects loop choice idea there... and, well buddy, I'm not sure I get it! So you could choose to have the dry signal go out through the effect loop, then come back in and get reverbed, right? I'm wondering if that's an important enough feature to justify the additional pcb routing and switching required, I think a dpdt would be required per channel, 6 extra traces to route per channel on an already super complicated layout. I'll keep it in mind for sure when I get doing the pcb but I don't think it's as important as the wet send and return. I'm an effects loop noob though, is that a standard issue feature of an effects loop?

Blake, I don't know man! My prototype already has 6 jacks though, so yeah, 7 could be done I suppose... what 7 were you thinking of there? I like this idea for the jacks: in, out, mix expression, loop send, loop return. 5! Or do the second output, pseudo stereo, and have 6 jacks.

[futuresailors]

I didn't think on my own and saw the eight jack stereo effect loop post, as stereo ins and outs and just subtracted one.

A pseudo stereo with a send for the loop and send for just the effected signal would be neat. Think about a fuzz in the loop and sending that to one amp, and then having a clean reverb-ed modulation sent to another.

If I understand right, a dry effect loop would let you have put effects in the loop so that they bypass the reverb circuit and are then blended back with the signal that is processed.

[backwhenIwascool]

If I understand right, a dry effect loop would let you have put effects in the loop so that they bypass the reverb circuit and are then blended back with the signal that is processed.

Actually, the dry effects loop is for your wet signal, not your dry signal. It just makes your wet signal pass through the whatever effects are in the loop one time and then exit, instead of being repeatedly more and more effected.

Here is kind of an explanation of wet/dry effects loops, however, in the video they are separate, but what I suggest is that they can be selected with a toggle.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC2_-28a9Bc[/youtube]

[futuresailors]

If I understand right, a dry effect loop would let you have put effects in the loop so that they bypass the reverb circuit and are then blended back with the signal that is processed.

Actually, the dry effects loop is for your wet signal, not your dry signal. It just makes your wet signal pass through the whatever effects are in the loop one time and then exit, instead of being repeatedly more and more effected.

Here is kind of an explanation of wet/dry effects loops, however, in the video they are separate, but what I suggest is that they can be selected with a toggle.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC2_-28a9Bc[/youtube]

Ohhhh....I was thinking that was the norm for effect loops. I'd never thought/heard of a wet loop before...so it would be like a feedback loop with a reverb in it already? And wouldn't you want a feedback control for it in a reverb because of how often it would be sent back through the loop?

[backwhenIwascool]

Feedback = Decay

[oinkbanana]

I don't think there are any feedback loops in the RRR design.
ryan?

i've only seen wet effect loops on delay pedals.


and bye bye stereo RRRv2
It's still gonna be a great pedal
and all the extra features are gonna be very drool worthy

[gururyan]

Why did that guy not just make a wet/dry toggle?
...seems silly to make two independent loops like that. I wonder what kind of mess you'd get if you had something in both loops at the same time. Better yet, criss-crossing the ins/outs while trying both loops at the same time.

[backwhenIwascool]

He's a silly guy. But he will mod your pedals cheap. His name is Jim. Very nice guy.
That design is beyond me. He told me that a switchable loop would be easy one time. Ya know maybe it was the customer who was silly.

Either way, I'm sure Ryan will do it right.

[Ryan]

and bye bye stereo RRRv2

*smoke fills the room along with the sound of awesome epic and uplifting Journey-like rock music with lyrics about holding on and not stopping believing*

Kev, I want you to say Hello! to stereo RRRv2... cause it ain't going nowhere! All through this spirit-journey of Reverberation Discussionation my pedal builder instincts have always wanted the RRRv2 to be stereo and I just can't give it up. I think it's really important, and I mean true stereo, separate left and right audio paths, baby!

Awhile ago you and Jack suggested the stereo in and out jacks and stereo effect loop jacks and I passed over the idea as if it wasn't the direction I thought I needed but I was wrong, that comment basically said it all and I'm sorry gents for not realizing what you were getting at.

As of right now I have a damn near finished pcb layout for the RRRv2. It's in the Hammond 1590BB. It has top mounted in/out/9vdc jacks. The in and out are stereo switching jacks, plug in a mono cable if you're a mono kinda guy or a TRS cable for separate left and right paths. Or any combination thereof for however the heck your rig works. It has a stereo expression control. It has a wet signal effect loop with stereo switching jacks. It might have the buffered bypass option but it might not.. there's just this tiny amount of room left for the switches for that option and I still haven't had a chance to work on that feature, it's my last thing to figure out and if my crude solution doesn't work then it'll have to go.

I plan on ordering this proto pcb this week and I feel pretty good that this could be the version we could make. It has 5 jacks, 6 knobs, and although the pcb is quite complicated with a high parts count I think this sucker is doable. And yes, Alex, it still has 5 vactrols.

I don't think there are any feedback loops in the RRR design.
ryan?

The way the decay time works with the reverb engine I use isn't a feedback loop, it's a high speed timing signal. The chip needs a 12.228MHz oscillator to run at its full resolution. With the old version of the pedal and the minis I use a 12MHz crystal and then a toggle switch to choose a 6MHz crystal which gives half the resolution but twice the decay time. With the RRRv2 I use a neat little square wave oscillator that is variable from 1kHz to 30MHz. The reverb engine can only function between 6 and 12 MHz though, it can't go any faster or slower, it just turns off if it gets a timing signal outside of that range. That's why I can't do a proper infinite or super long decay time, the reverb engine just can't do it.

I've never experimented with an analog feedback loop, feeding the wet output back into the wet input, and I probably should.. although I'm so far into this design now that I'm pretty reluctant to add another knob and have to totally change everything. If I experiment with it and it rules hard then I'll have to though.. and I will check it out for sure.

Now as for this wet/dry effect loop, my plan now is to only make it a wet send. Your wet signal comes out, nice and low impedance and unity gain, and goes out to whatever you want to send it through, then comes back in and goes through the mix pot and to the output amp. I don't have the switching or routing room to give an option between wet and dry signals and I think being able to send out the wet signal for effecting is the best option. Well, I hope it is at least!

Thanks again for everything, guys, I think the pedal has made it to a really solid version with really solid features and I solidly appreciate it!

[gururyan]

It's in the Hammond 1590BB. It has top mounted in/out/9vdc jacks. The in and out are stereo switching jacks, plug in a mono cable if you're a mono kinda guy or a TRS cable for separate left and right paths. Or any combination thereof for however the heck your rig works. It has a stereo expression control. It has a wet signal effect loop with stereo switching jacks. It might have the buffered bypass option but it might not.

You've outdone yourself Ryan, very impressive. You've stuck to your guns and kept what you originally dreamed AND added others' dreams, great solutions from a great mind [stands to applaud].

[bronzetalon]

Freaking cool Ryan I knew you could include everyone's features the way you wanted.

[backwhenIwascool]

Three cheers! Three cheers for the Doctor!

[oinkbanana]

woot, Woot, WOOT!

sounds awesome!

I couldn't imagine it any better...
I can't wait to hear it!


Top Mounted EVERYTHING.

[Ryan]

Thanks guys! We're making an awesome reverb pedal here! Like a field of dreams... of reverb!

woot, Woot, WOOT!

Top Mounted EVERYTHING.

Welllllll..... the mix jack and the loop jacks are on the side of the box... it's just not physically possible to fit 5 jacks plus the 9vdc jack on the top panel so I went with what I thought was the best solution and kept the in/out/9vdc on the top panel like all our pedals. They sit on top of the pots and have to be hand wired. The mix and loop jacks sit under and through the pcb on the left side of the box.

Sooooo top mounted mostly everything.